The great debate - time to update C-3 hub to C-7?

With all of the changes to SmartThings, I've been considering finally completing my migration to Hubitat. I've currently got around 55 devices on Hubitat and probably around 180 on ST. However, my Hubitat hub is a C-3. I've been wondering if perhaps I should get a C-7 and start completely from scratch. I've heard that newer hubs may support z-wave backups as a paid service, and this interests me. Thoughts?

To me there is not debate.If it ain't broke don't fix it. Spend the money on some extra devices

Well, there is the introductory discount, ending August 20, discussed in the last paragraph of the introduction announcement:

Just Curious, what is a C3? I purchased a C4 in June of 2018 and thought that was the first until recently there has been mention of a C3. Is/was there a C1 & C2?


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I have the C3, it uses a plug-in USB stick for Z-Wave/Zigbee (which I prefer). I have the hub located in the basement on a ups and use a USB extension to bring the stick up to the main area. Its in some nice plastic conduit and very stealthy. To my knowledge, there wasn't a C1 or C2 (or at least in production). -Joel

Edit: I just checked and I have a C4, duh.

Just made the switch from ST to a C7 after about a year of waffling. Honestly feels like I'm out of the pot and into the fire. When the Hubitat performs as it says on the tin, it's magically responsive. However, the interface feels half baked (dialogs run off mobile screens with no scroll bars, lists are incomplete, the countdown timer for inclusion mode is on the opposite end of the page from the real device found notification, and countless others).

My C7 seems to only reliably perform any higher function such as Z-wave inclusions after a reboot. Sometimes a reboot appears necessary to make new app functionality work after creation or modification. Pretty much now rather than troubleshoot problems I just reboot and things seem better.

I'll keep plugging away at the problems because I really want the latency benefits of 100% local processing; however, the quantity of little issues that require forum spelunking seem on par with any other for techies by techies platform. There's no way I'd recommend it to my parents or techtarded friends.

Short version in response to the topic subject is, if what you have works, keep it. If you want to spend your time beta testing new hardware for those of us who don't, please upgrade!


C3 was the very first model, released in 2018. I was an early adopter of Hubitat and just got lazy with HA in general and didn’t complete my ST to Hubitat migration.

The main reason I’m considering the C-7 is to save myself hassle down the road. So to summarize:

  1. I’ve been on ST since 2015.
  2. I’ve been running Hubitat since it was released in 2018.
  3. I never completed my ST to Hubitat migration but with the recent ST change announcements and the fact that my ST hub is an original release V2 from 2015, I feel I’m living on borrowed time.
  4. It seems the C-3 lacks the necessary hardware for new features. Plus, I had read (not sure if this has changed or not) that the C-7 will allow z wave backups via a service from Hubitat. That is a huge feature for me for recovery purposes.

So my logic is that if I am going to migrate another 180 devices from ST to Hubitat, maybe I should get the latest hub and save myself the hassle of the inevitable move from the C-3 to another model down the road. Moving 55 devices from the C-3 to C-7 might suck but it’s better than migrating 180 devices from ST to C-3 and then migrating 230+ devices from C-3 to C-7 later.


The hub protection service has been announced but not yet released; it will enable z-wave and zigbee radio backups for both C5 and C7 hubs, but not C3/C4 from what they have told us.

It’s possible it’ll cost 36 bucks a year, they briefly had a product page in the online store that was viewable to the public but presumably that was inadvertent and the page has since disappeared. So we don’t know if that was a real world price, but that’s what was listed on the page while it was accessible.

If you think you’d subscribe to the protection service, then I’d tend to agree with you that moving your ST devices and C3 devices to a C7 hub makes sense.

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Get a C7 as a backup in case your C3 ever dies.

@JohnRob I don’t recall when exactly C3 became C4, I got my hub in March, and it’s a C3. So if your hub shipped in June was a C4, the transition was presumably right around then.

As @672southmain pointed out, it’s the same box just +/- the hubitat logo. But I know that the first x number of C3 hubs came with a signed note from the team. I must have just missed out on that :sob:.

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A signed note would have been a bonus. Another example of folks doing business in a classy manner.


I have to say my C7 experience isn't good moving from SmartThings to a C7.
Z-wave inclusion is bad... hopefully fixed soon.
However the killer...the C7 lasted two days!
Due to the z-wave inclusion problems I was attempting a shutdown and power cycle. The hub failed to power on again!
Now because I've got an electronics background I decided to open the case to see why.
It turns out that the micro USB power connector is surface mount and the shield was all that is mechanically protecting the surface mount soldering. The shield isn't up to the job, so the surface mount soldering failed leading to the power disconnection.
Unfortunately while I like the concept, the hardware isn't up to the job, as it's too cheap, especially compared to the Samsung hub.
Hopefully they will fix it in a C8, but I can see a lot of returns, as I already see someone else with the same problem as me, with a hub failing to power up.
I'm getting a replacement from Vesternet, but never ever touch the power connector after plugging it in, as it's going to fail!

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Yeah, I hate those bloody MicroUSB connectors which is why I NEVER power cycle something by removing them !
My Tip !
Leave that end plugged in and use whatever is on the other end of the cable instead. :slight_smile:


I ordered the C-7 tonight. So for those with multiple Hubitat hubs:

  1. I assume as long as device names are unique, both can be controlled by one Alexa account, right?
  2. It has been a long time since I set up the Lutron integration, but in theory, couldn’t I have both hubs connected to the same Lutron hub? Trying to see if I could do that and gradually bring up the Lutron devices in the C-7.
  3. Presence is a big concern for me. It seems most advocate using Presence Governor and maybe two presence sensors (like the Hubitat presence sensor and maybe Life 369 or something) - any specific recommendations? Presence on my ST hub works week.

I’m envisioning using the C-7 to migrate the SmartThings stuff and when I’m done with that, moving the stuff on my C-3 over. Any recommendations or opinions? Should I keep the C-3 running with maybe some non-critical stuff?

I'll touch on the presence aspect. As you've likely read anything using phones gps can be flaky.

Personally I find the st presence fobs most reliable

  1. Last I tried (and I think still true), the Alexa integration only allows one hub to be associated with your account. I have heard of some people working around this by using "full" Alexa Skill (what I'm really talking about here) on one hub and the less-featured Echo App on another, though it should be noted that the Skill is recommended in most cases because it supports more features (the Echo App basically pretends to be a Hue Bridge and is mostly useful for bulbs, switches, and dimmers or anything that presents itself similarly enough to one). HubConnect-ing or Hub Link-ing your devices from one hub to another and running the Alexa Skill on that hub is the best solution otherwise. All would require unique device names for Alexa to be happiest (though in this latter case you can name them something else on the Alexa-integrated hub than they are on the "real" hub if you want).

  2. Yes, you can connect as many hubs as you want with the Lutron integration (it's just another third-party telnet integration of which Lutron supports arbitrarily many)

  3. If ST presence works well, you could bring that sensor over with something like HubConnect (or maybe Link to Hub? I don't know what devices that supports off the top of my head) and supplement it with Hubitat's mobile app presence and find some way to combine them, as you suggest. Personally, I use Hubitat's app and HomeKit presence via HomeBridge and a Home automation (iOS, of course), and together, one usually works and sets things as I want. :slight_smile: Other options include Life360 (built-in but requires you to have Life360), maybe Locative (is that still a thing?), giving up entirely and using a "presence button/switch" inside your house instead, using a "phone pinger"-type app to supplement any of these options (probably not a good idea on its own--at least iPhones sleep WiFi a lot), or just risking it and seeing if the mobile app works well enough for you. I'm sure others will have other ideas.

Regarding presence, yeah, I may bring the ST presence over via Hub Link at least temporarily. I did notice something last night - in my current C-3 hub, I have two devices - My iPhone (which I think said was a mobile app host or something like that) and an iPhone virtual presence sensor. The iPhone virtual presence sensor hasn't updated since December, but the regular iPhone does seem to be showing presence changes, though they aren't very accurate. The wife won't install Life360 on her phone so that's probably a non-starter. I guess I could keep my ST hub around for the sole purpose of presence - that is, assuming it works OK in the new app.

Can't speak for the new app, but unless you use the Zigbee keychain fob, I think ST presence should work with the cloud and wouldn't actually require your hub to be on. (Again, they may change something here and I could be wrong in the first place, but I can't imagine why it would need it.)