It seems that zigbee range is a little weaker, but I didn’t notice a difference with my Z-wave plus devices on my C-5 hub. Biggest thing would probably having a central location for your hub so there are fewer hops to devices. I ran ethernet cable to a centrally located closet, put an unmanaged switch in it (and an outlet), and drilled a hole in the wall and mounted my hub on the wall outside of the closet. That made a big difference in reliability for me.
1 Like
The C7 seems like it has better range than the C5. Failed pairs are a real challenge right now. If you end up creating ghost nodes it will wreck havoc on your hub. A secondary controller like a UZB-7 or similar is helpful for getting rid of failed pairs and firmware upgrades.
https://docs.hubitat.com/index.php?title=How_to_Build_a_Solid_Z-Wave_Mesh
https://docs.hubitat.com/index.php?title=How_to_Build_a_Solid_Zigbee_Mesh
Appreciate the links. Is there any good write ups on using a UZB?
To be fair to smartthings after doing three zwave repairs (10-20 min total) the network was solid and I can’t recall ever waiting more than a few minutes before creating automations as opposed to the three day stabilization recommended in these docs. I would move things all the time and just do this each time. I also never had issues with ghost nodes. I don’t know if ST just has better garbage collection than Hubitat but these papers are not encouraging.
Hubitat c7 is the first to market with a 700 series zwave chip and a new zwave software stack. The ghost node issue appears to be resolved with the software release today. As for the uzb7 I'll link some threads in a bit. As far as the garbage collection, you could do the same on Hubitat as ST. Most wouldn't notice a difference but with either the devices are the holdup on this not the hub as they map out their paths. Those guides would help ST users just as much. Myself coming from ST helped users with just as many mesh issues there as here. 90% of the time mesh issues are self inflicted, be it device choices, range, interference, placement, network conditions etc... Overall I've had a much better experience with Hubitat over ST. Not to mention when I ran into problems on ST I often was told to pound sand and they weren't going to help me. Think 2015 Samsung TV debockle. Here I get help, advice or in two cases a driver written for me in minutes.
4 Likes
Here's a good quick and dirty on the UZB and PC Controller software:
Here's another writeup if the first one wasn't enough:
Here's the user guide:
Awesome! Thanks! Norm
Hear you on the self-inflicted issues for z-wave. I spent a lot of time trying to debug and it did take me a while to get it right and learning where my dead spots were, which devices to consolidate on and to be honest just trying. You probably were helping me over there! I’ve gotten frustrated with the new interface with the old hub. Basically with the migration the answer is delete automations and start over. Which one? Don’t know. Good luck.... Frustrating and the user group has lost the experts like you over time. It’s not as bad as wemo but almost. The last issue was diagnosed as - “Maybe the migration didn’t work because your cell phone battery in the screenshot looks low.” Seriously.
Btw - finally there is something that gives you a topology map?!?! I looked for that ages ago and couldn’t find it just to diagnose my range and hop issues. I finally created my own manually based on trial and error.
Yes, there has been a huge influx of new users over the last couple of weeks with ST killing off classic as well as a lot of vera users. I honestly thought vera was dead already but guess not. Seen a bunch of the big devs from ST on here this week so looking forward to some cool stuff going forward. The rush of noobs along with the new hub and stack was a real challenge but it looks like it's through the rough spot. There's still some stuff to resolve but the vast majority of users should be good to go now.
For topology zniffer might do it but I haven't really looked into it yet. If you have a c7 it will show you a bit more. They may have included some of it on the c7 such as the routes and the speed. 100k is highest I see and that is what most of my devices connect at. I do have radiant barrier lining the walls in the garage so reception is bad in there and I get 9.6k on bad days in there but it stays connected. 40k is the middle connecting speed. 100k and just the hub and device direct connect is ideal.
This is through brick and radiant barrier for the driveway lights.
2 Likes
You can try the IMA Network Topology... click the Icon on the left most menu for Home and there's a button for:
Not very much of the PC Controller is intuitive... and the IMA is obscure too.
You get a graphic of Dots with the Node Numbers and if you click on one it will highlight the neighbors it's aware of.
1 Like
Smartthings as I see it have achieved exactly what they set out to do.
They admitted that essentially power users were stressing their system with custom groovy dths/apps, hence the change in direction.
The fact that the fork in the road came at a time when the new road is still pretty much "under construction" has resulted in a lot of people hitting so many potholes that they just couldn't be arsed to continue the journey. But hey, technically, the support hasn't been removed! Oh no! It's just a rough start!
Reality - it's all screwed. Power users are leaving or have already left. Which means the initial problems that those users created, are less of a problem/drain for samsung now.
Job done. They couldn't give a toss.
As I said elsewhere it's a huge shame for the enthusiastic and helpful support staff over there who frequent the forums. They've been left firefighting.
It does appear that there's some pretty cool ideas in the pipeline for developers over there, but it looks like essentially they've gone from being a kick-■■■, crowd-funded, awesome ecosystem to something that's currently f*cked-to-bits and not really in a releasable state. In the future? Maybe something cool again. But who wants to wait.
Very excited to see what the talented and thankless ex-ST guys start to achieve over here.
The future is bright. Glad to be a part of it.
=)
5 Likes
And they are starting out September the way August ended with an outage i'm sitting here with a whole house full of lights that cant turn off, smartthings is down and I can't turn any lights off this is just utterly ridiculous.
To explain me and my wife decided to sell our house and move closer to all of our kids to Texas ( I know not my idea hers) well the plans got side tracked by the toilet paper apocalypse so we have to stay in Georgia for a lil while longer.
My wife was in a local pawn shop in our area and she came across a box full of used Osram Lightify bulbs bulbs about 29 in total the shop owner wanted $25 for the whole lot she called me and I told her to grab them, her idea was to leave them in the old house when we sell to add value. We were already leaving the Ecobee 2 Shlage zwave locks and several Zwave window and door sensors, we wouldn't be needing that stuff as I have totaly gone zigbee everything in the house, So she felt we could get more for a totally automated house so I said good idea honey.
She got them home so to prepare for our move i took out our phillips hue system (not leaving that here we paid to damn much money for that gear) so I rehooked up the smartthings hub just for the lights and we have been regretting that decision since we made it, we have had nothing but constant outages from smartthings and it has been nothing but a headache in the house since I have re installed smartthings into the mix.
I'm ready to toss that damn hub in our local lake.
I'd keep the ST hubs in case you get some smartthings sensors and want to upgrade the firmware on them. As for selling the house as a SmartHome you could be held liable for it not working as advertised. I'd just stick in some led bulbs and be done with it or leave them in but not advertise the smart home aspect.
1 Like
Yeah i'm going to keep the hub, and i tried explaining that fact about liability to the wife but i'm going to let our attorney fight with her about it. She never thinks I know anything.
There was a lawsuit in my neighborhood about that exact issue. It was settled out of court though for an undisclosed amount of money.
Your wife must be my wife's sister.
1 Like
Man you just dont know, I luv her but geez.
1 Like
These outages are really tempting me to move the rest of my devices over. 
Gotta love when things just continue to work with Hubitat even when the internet goes out.
1 Like
Even with the ZW teething pains the move to HE has been a welcomed changed from ST. Since I moved about a month ago, I think I'm up a half a dozen emails from ST about something not working or offline. I get a good laugh out of it.
2 Likes
I see the emails and think "YASCO"
(yet another SmartThings cloud outage).
Although, lately fewer than half the outages are being reported or announced.
