My Z-wave is very sick. I can't nurse it back to health

Am curious -- is that possible with battery Z-wave devices? Just curious if a goal here is as near 0, if not 0, when my mesh gets stable again?

Battery devices generally won’t respond in any case.

Ok, here's where we're at now.

  1. All chatty power/energy-reporting plugs have new drivers, and have been adjusted to stop being chatty
  2. Entire system has been powered down for 30 minutes -- C7 also unplugged
  3. Everything booted back up
  4. Water Pump 40-amp switch powered back up

Everything looks much better. "Feels" much better. But still "sluggish". Turning on the Kitchen lights, can take about 10 seconds, but sometimes 1-2 seconds. Used to be nearly instantaneous.

BUT -- the problematic "Water Pump Power Control" switch still is flooding the Z-wave with "route change". I had it turned off for about 2 hours. Turning it back on, it started right back with "route change" messages

Looking at it closer, most of them are "route changed: false" -- but some say "true".

Looking at the device itself, in Z-wave details, doesn't show a bunch of route-changes tho.

Not sure on next steps. Just let things settle 24 hours? Attempt a Z-wave repair?

You could try removing and re-pairing that well pump control. It might find a happier route. If you do, create a virtual device, use device swap to swap the real device for the virtual one, then exclude the real one, re-include it, and then use device swap to swap it back in. That way you dont have to redo all your rules etc.

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I've got a Z-wave plug arriving tomorrow (thanks Amazon one-day delivery!) - that I'm going to use to "close the gap" between the Pump Power switch and the Hubitat C7. Once I get that in, paired, I'll try your idea. Makes sense.

Between the mid-span repeater - and repairing -- we'll see what happens.

And the idea of a virtual switch, etc to trade out -- brilliant!

Yeah unfortunately I've gotten good at that recently :slight_smile:

Do you have a current copy of the ghost removal PDF - there have been updates recently including a link to new setup instructions for Simplicity Studio.

Also, IIRC someone just posted recently that you have to be logged in to simplicity studio install the Z-Wave tool.

Swap Apps is one the nicest enhancements HE team has added...


Yes and then check the zwave details to see if anything is still struggling.

I also like using this tool: [BETA] A Z-Wave Mesh Tool [C7 and 2.2.4+ Only]
You can sort by the RTT (response time) to see which devices are responding slowest.


Good morning folks -- next day now. Let the Z-wave settle out overnight.

We are MUCH better, but not "perfect". Some things still are sluggish in responding. But not "widespread".

This morning, I wrote an excel spreadsheet to dynamically pull the Z-wave mesh details and slice/dice. Here's where I'm at (after about 12 hours since the last hard-cycle of the C7)

  1. A total of 42 Nodes are in my Z-wave mesh

  2. PER (Packet Error Rate) -- My problematic 40-amp Well pump switch is the worst at 145. Everybody else is largely 0, a few at 5 to 13)

  3. RTT -- again, my Well Pump shows the largest RTT -- most are a few MS -- but many of my S2 Authenticated devices are in the thousands, etc. (a correlation there with my S2's?) --- Not sure what's "acceptable" -- but if in MS -- then something at 1285 is 1.2 seconds? And the well pump at 57933, is 59 seconds?

  4. Neighbors -- All hardwired devices have 10 or more neighbors, with the Well Pump at 11. Max neighbors seen is 24. Battery devices tend to have just a few

  5. RSSI -- between 5 and 43db for hard-wired devices -- no clue how to interpret that. Most in the 15-30db range. What's good? What's bad? Do I care?

  6. Route Changes -- nearly everything is 1 or 2. A few below 10. But ALL of my "Minostron" plugs are high (62 to 142), and the problem-child Well pump isn't as bad, at 25

  7. Status on everything says "OK"

Next Steps:

a) Am adding a Z-wave 700 plug "mid-point" between my Water Pump and the C7

b) Intend to remove the Well Pump control, factory reset it, and re-pair it -- slightly concerned about this because it is hard-wired -- gotta figure out how to get the C7 closer as it's a bear to get paired, and am afraid of the wrong Z-wave device getting Excluded.

c) Have checked for any updated firmware on the 40-amp switch -- no update released -- does have version 5.55, but I am running that one already

(Regarding putting the C7 in Exclude mode -- as I understand it, the next Z-wave that talks gets excluded. That's scary. -- then I've excluded the wrong one right?)

No when exclude starts it's looking for the device in include/exclude mode. So you start the pairing process on the device you want to exclude then start exclude on the hub and that device and only that device will exclude


I doubt excluding and including it again will do anything besides waste a bunch of time.

If you have a hard time just including it, then obviously it has a hard time getting a route to the hub, so thats the problem with it.

You did not state how things are working now? Any better?

Would still be concerned with all the route changes. How many of those plugs do you have? Just doing some basic math average of 100 changes per device x 4 devices is 400 changes in 24 hours. That's 16 route changes per hour, or a route change every 3 minutes between 4 devices.

Seems like they are still pretty chatty, and/or changing routes every time they send a message in.

Yea, afraid of that. I'll move that to last-thing-to-try as it is very time and resource intensive. But there is a "factory reset" option on the switch -- again, dunno if it's worth - trade with virtual device / exclude / factory reset / include / trade back from virtual device

Was kind of my logic. Although, there are lots of anecdotal reports of this 40-amp switch being a bear to pair in general. The irony is, it's 3 feet away from a "Dome" water valve, which has no issues. And it generally is using it as a "repeater" node.

I do plan to put a Z-wave 700 plug mid-span between the Water Pump and the C7 -- later today, once Amazon shows up.

My bad -- fixed my post -- it's much better. A few things still are sluggish. And the Minoston plugs remain problematic -- slow, sometimes never responding.

I have 7 of those plugs. Bought them because of them being heavy-duty -- they are running heavy-duty loads for power monitoring/control -- like 1500watt oil radiator heaters, clothes washer, etc. And your math is about double that -- it's been about 12 hours.

They don't seem nearly as chatty as the Well Pump -- it would appear as it continues to flood my z-wave net. A brief example from my Z-wave logs shows it every second or two, or sometimes multiple times in a second

Ok, with 7 devices and 12 hours, basically your mesh is being hammered by route discovery packets non-stop. I dont need to do the math again. No wonder its slow. *They might be route changing due to whatever the well pump is spamming out.

Is this it?

This is all I could find for parameters, looks like it has nearly 0 useful parameters.

I would be inclined to set Paramater 2 to value 2, which will report the energy (kWh) daily. There seems to be no adjusting of the power reporting.

You should turn on debug logging for that device and see if anything gets generated in the logs, maybe some incoming messages will go into debug logs. It might look like gibberish to you but it will make sense to me. Might help to figure out what it keeps chatting about.

Yup. That's it. I have two of them. One on my 220v clothes dryer, the other on the 220v well pump. Not a bit of trouble from the clothes dryer one -- it's about 20' away from the C7, on the same floor.

The Well Pump one is at the far reach of the house -- downstairs, through the floor and two walls. Going to work on getting better signal, etc down there -- but I have three Dome water shutoff thingies, and they are just fine -- within 5' of the problem Well Pump 40-amp switch.

And yes, for the power reporting -- I have to poll it once a minute. When the well pump runs, it runs for about 2-3 minutes -- so that is sufficient to detect it's on. The whole point was to detect if the well pump "ran too long" so I don't burn out a very expensive deep-well pump

Will do. Thanks for the suggestions.

So you are polling it every minute, constantly?
Doesn't it report power on its own when it changes?

EDIT: Actually looks like it does not report automatically... thats lame.
Your polling is probably the source of ALL the problems in the network.
When you are polling it, it is probably requesting ALL 4 values as well, instead of just the one you need!
That could be fixed with a custom driver. I wonder if someone has made one already we could tweak it.

Completely concur on it's lame. The polling is the only option to get power readings (per a lots of community and google)

That said, the other one -- the Clothes Washer 40-amp -- is also polled every minute (for WAF - "the dryer has started/finished") -- and doesn't have these issues of flooding the Z-wave net.

Here's what I'm seeing in the debug logs

Holy crap -- why is this STUCK repeating?? Does two quick polls (well, supposed to)

The intent was to get current power readings when the pump starts up

Shutting down (pause) that rule. Troubleshooting further.

Yeah its polling everything.
Its not chatty, you are asking it for info!

I think a good test might be to disable the polling on both of those device for a short while to see if it makes any improvement?

Also, if there is a custom driver for this device already, a custom command could be added that only requests the power value instead of everything! It may even work with the Power metering plug driver I have already created.

If you find a custom driver that works for it, I would be happy to modify it to add the custom command.

You could try this driver as well if you are feeling adventurous. [DRIVER] Zooz Smart Plugs Advanced (ZEN04 / ZEN05 / ZEN14 / ZEN15) I suspect it will work, and I could make a custom version for this 40 amp switch with a command that only requests the power reading. That would cut down the traffic 4x.

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Have "stopped" and "paused" that rule that appears to be "stuck" in polling/repeat.

Holy crap. My Z-wave net has dramatically gotten quieter. Been looking at that logic in that rule causing the problem - - can't figure out why it got stuck "repeating" -- says do it just 2 times.

I went and checked the "events" for the three triggers -- nope, nothing abnormal -- not like any of them were triggering constantly.

Stay tuned -- have rebooted hub -- to reset all the counters -- it's looking a LOT better.