My Z-wave is very sick. I can't nurse it back to health

I have loved my Hubitat automation, with a mix of Z-wave, Zigbee and Shelly devices. Have had very high WAF with the automations. Even have my Litter Robot 4 connected via HA (Hubitat doesn't yet support a LR4)

Now, for some reason, my Z-wave part of my system is very sick. Devices sometimes respond, sometimes don't. Example: Many times a CT100 Z-wave thermostat that controls the gas logs -- can respond immediately, or 15 seconds later, or not at all.

Here's what I know:

I have seen:

    1. Periodically - A massive amounts of "ghost" devices (no routing information) and then, awhile later, see almost all of them come back with routing info.
    1. I have a device (one old Christmas Tree plug) that I can't find (it's packed away) and I cannot get it to "remove"
    1. I bought the right "stick" to use with the "Simplicity Studio" and followed the directions to a "T" and never see the Z-wave tool as an option to add.
    1. I have a device that has routing information, but the Z-wave topology says it doesn't connect to anybody. But it's a battery device, so that may be "ok" -- but is in "pending" state? No clue what that means.
  • 5, I have shut down my hub for 30 minutes, and brought it back online several times -- things really don't seem better -- but it does seem to cause a different set of devices not to work well

I know that Z-wave repair should be used judiciacly -- but I hit the button anyway. Here's those results


I am tempted to cut off the master breaker to the house, to force everybody to reset. But not sure if that's the right thing to try.

Z-Wave issues can be frustrating as heck to diagnose and "simplicity studio" is the most inappropriately named tool on the planet!

First, what version of the hub are you on? Second, can you post a screen shot of your z-wave details here, from a browser?

One thing I have found helpful is to open a browser window, open the z-wave logs, and just let them sit there for a while. Then go back and look to see if there are any devices generating an excessive amount of traffic. If there are, these can overwhelm your z-wave network and lead to symptoms like you report.

Also... how many devices do you have paired with S0 security (if any), and do you have any power-reporting devices?

@Brad5 --

No kidding -- when Z-wave works, it's great. When it acts up -- it's darned difficult

  1. Am running a C-7 @
  2. Z-wave details below -- (Hint to HE folks -- please make a "tool" that generates this diagnostic info for uploading -- it's a struggle for everybody who has a long list)
  3. Looks like just one device paired at S0 -- a battery-powered sensor on a door
  4. Yes, I have some pretty chatty Z-wave power thingies that frequently push their current power status
  5. Looking at the Z-wave logs -- looks like my 220v Power Switch is generating a flood of "route changes" -- GE/Jasco 40-amp switch. (An identical one on my clothes dryer is quiet)

Do you have an "Update Firmware" button at the top of the zwave details page by chance?

How long was the hub running when you took those screenshots of the zwave details?
The devices with the high number of route changes, those are your trouble starters.
Anything with power reporting, tune the settings so you get just enough info to do what you need, nothing extra.

Node 2E which is the one I think you said is disconnected and you cannot get rid of. I would not worry too much about it. It has no neighbors at this point, no devices should be trying to talk to it. It should not be hurting anything IMO.

FWIW, when I had my C7 up and running I could run a full repair and it would have 0 failed nodes by the end.

Oh also, for the screenshots, this ShareX tool has an option for a "Scrolling Capture" that can get an entire webpage in one image: Recommendation for Screenshot App - ShareX

EDIT: For comparison, by hub has been up for 2.5 days and the highest route changes number is 6. Also 90% of my devices have 10+ neighbors.


@jtp10181 --

  1. no, there is no 'update firmware' -- I have Exclude / Repair / Logs / Topology
  2. I'm guessing the hub has been running for 5-10 days since I did a "shutdown" followed by a full, hard, cold "pull the plug" (after shutdown) -- the screenshots were taken a few minutes ago
  3. The noisy power-reporting things are the "Minoston Z-Wave Outdoor Plug with Energy Monitoring (MP22ZP)" -- running the "Minoston mini power meter plug" driver
  4. When those plugs are idle, they report about every 3 minutes (and that's what the driver is set for) -- but when they are running (an oil heater, our clothes dryer, etc) -- they are very chatty about reporting even the most minor fluctuation in power draw -- every few seconds, or more -- and if lots are running, it can get very chatty. I don't see any control in the driver for "report only if changed more than xx amps" . Other power reporting plugs I own do have that kind of option.
  5. Even when none of the power plugs are active (are quiet) I am having Z-wave issues.

UPDATE: Looking closer at the Z-wave details -- all of my Minoston have high "route changes" and my Jasco 40 amp to the well pump has high "route-changes"

I'm going to try bouncing (plug/unplug/flip breaker) all of those and see if things settle down.

THANKS for the tip on ShareX! Gonna check that out

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Yeah this is kinda messy... 16# looks like a ghost and if you can get rid of it I would. I might try disabling those power reporting devices for a while, just for testing. That well pump power control isn't looking happy either.

I almost wonder if you have a z-wave radio issue... some of the devices with the worst RSSI are directly connected to the hub.

Out of curiosity where is your hub located relative to some of these devices? And did this problem start suddenly after a specific event/upgrade/issue?

The Z-Wave PC controller app is located under the "Tools" tab at the top.

Regarding #16 -- I see where it has no known name, but does have a route -- I thought a route meant "it's on your Z-wave mesh somewhere" -- and wasn't a ghost.

  1. Going to pull the plug on the Power Plug thingies -- they're soon to be no longer needed (most control winter oil-heaters) -- but I think I'll find a way to leave them plugged in somewhere so my Z-wave doesn't go nuts with them gone for 6 months
  2. Gonna work on the Well Pump -- best I know to do is to pull power, wait a bit, and put power back.
  3. Can you explain this concept to me better? "I almost wonder if you have a z-wave radio issue... some of the devices with the worst RSSI are directly connected to the hub."
  4. The hub is in the center of the house. Upstairs, in an open shelf - perched at the edge) -- is about 15 feet away to the nearest Z-wave wall switches. (1E - xREAL Den Overhead Fan, 0A - Kitchen Lights, 08 - Bar Lights, 0B - Outdoor Front Steps)
  5. That problem-child Well Pump (lots of route-changes) is at the farthest end of my Z-wave mesh. Does have a Z-wave plug near it put there as a "repeater" but may be too close to be useful. (06 - WATER repeater outlet)

I doubt that is going to change anything. They are probably route changing when in the middle of spamming out so many events the zwave network cannot handle it. They spam the network, it gets slow, they think they need a better route, spam more stuff out to change routes, network gets worse, etc.... downward spiral.

The one plug you mentioned the model #, does have options to adjust the reporting, check the manual:

It may not be exposed in the driver you are using. Minoston has some drivers posted for Hubitat, hopefully those show all the settings: . Those are the same drivers as what is posted on github here: GitHub - sky-nie/hubitat: Minoston/Evalogik/NewOne drivers for Hubitat hub and it looks like they are in HPM also since he has a repository file.

Like your z-wave radio has a hardware problem preventing it from working correctly.

@Sakman -- yup, not seeing the Z-wave stuff in Simplicity. I had a Z-wave no-name USB stick, didn't see it. Bought the "recommended" Z-wave USB stick, reinstalled everything -- still don't see the Z-wave tools

For the Simplicity stupid, you have to press the Install button, and then I think the zwave stuff is under the Gecko SDK? I can check.

Doesnt look like I can see the menus anymore because I have stuff installed already. I think this might be how you need to get it installed:

Page 9, section titled
Can I get some step by step help installing the PC Controller app from Simplicity Studio?

As soon as mine is done updating I will see if anything has changed there.

You have to explicitly install the z-wave pc controller via simplicity - let me go see if I can remember how! Oh good maybe @jtp10181 can remember!

The HPM version says it's not available. But that's OK -- got the driver groovy, added it to driver stuff, and updated all the plugs. YUP -- lots of new goodies to set to cut down on the chatty -- will research those in a bit and tighten things down.

Thanks for that tip!


Once you get the settings adjusted I would reboot the hub to reset all those stats. Then you can watch it again and see if they are still route changing so much.

I don't see this mentioned anywhere, when you shut the hub down does it work better temporarily?

In your zwave details screenshots I see a few devices which show "Pending" or "Not Responding" I suspect those are the ones that failed the repair? If you are still seeing those I would try refreshing them one at a time to see if you can get them out of Pending state. Then run a repair on each one individually to see if that will work. Some of those have neighbors, so other devices might be trying to route through them and if they are unreachable it can cascade into more problems.

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I've also noticed after making a bunch of changes letting things sit overnight doesn't hurt


Ok, for the moment, I either unplugged, or flipped the breaker on all the devices having lots of "route changes". Was a bit surprised (perplexed) on why they are still showing up in the Z-wave real-time logs.

These devices are definitely unplugged, power removed.

I think the zwave logs is outbound messages from the hub. Never really understood it all the way.
I suspect it will stop after a little while if you left them offline.
Some could be repeating for other devices though, so it could make things worse temporarily.

Yup -- that's the plan. Am close to going "hands-off" and letting things settle.

Have had the same experience -- let the mesh "do it's thing" for a bit before making judgements. Let battery Z-wave's check-in, etc

Am hoping not. But if I can't get this solved -- am not opposed to going to a C-8. I was taking a "ain't broke, don't fix" approach and staying on a C7 -- but if I may be "broke" -- then I don't mind upgrading.

I think it's unlikely too but ya never know!