Groups and Scenes

Groups and Scenes

We have added a new parent app called Groups and Scenes. A new version of Group is available, and a whole new app: Scene.

These two apps are similar, but function in distinct ways:

A Group selects a collection of color bulbs, color temperature bulbs, dimmers and switches, all of which will turn on or off together, or change level, color or color temperature together. These are controlled by a created virtual device that has the same name as the Group itself. This device can be used with Alexa or in automations such as Simple Lighting, Motion Lighting, Button Controller or Rule Machine. When that virtual device is controlled, the entire group of lights follows.

This new version of Group has a new feature: It will optionally group together all Zigbee devices into a Zigbee Group, and control them as a group. This feature allows all of those grouped Zigbee devices to turn on or off together simultaneously -- no popcorn effect -- or to dim together simultaneously. The Group may have non-Zigbee devices in it as well, and these will turn on or off or dim at the very same time, but possibly with some popcorn effect.

A Scene also selects a collection of color bulbs, color temperature bulbs, dimmers and switches, all of which will turn on or off together, or change level, color or color temperature together. A Scene is used to Capture the settings of its member devices and remember those settings. Later, a Scene is Activated. When the Scene is Activated, the member devices come on to the Captured settings. A Scene creates two associated virtual devices: a Capture device and an Activate device. Both of these support two methods of operation: a switch that can be turned on or off, and a button that can be pushed. Both have the same name as the Scene itself, with the Capture device having the word "Capture" appended to its name.

To Capture a Scene, first set all of the devices to their desired levels, on/off state, and colors or color temperatures. Then either turn on or push the Capture device, or press the Capture button in the web user interface for the Scene. One easy way to do this is to use a Hubitat Dashboard with the Capture device on it as a Momentary button.

To Activate a Scene, either turn on the Activate switch or push the Activate button. The activate device can be used in other automations, including Simple Lighting, Motion Lighting, Button Controller or Rule Machine, or it can be placed in a Dashboard. If the Activate Switch is turned off, all of the member devices are turned off. There is an option for a Scene when activated to push a button of a button device, such as a keypad. This is useful for activating scenes (phantom buttons) in a Lutron system.

To make Scene creation easier, since some scenes will use the same member devices with different settings, it is possible to clone a Scene in the Groups and Scenes app. In Groups and Scenes select the Scene to clone and hit Done. In the Apps list you will see the new Scene with the name of the Scene it was cloned from with the word "copy" appended to its name. When you open the new Scene, hit the Get Clone Values button, and it will populate the name and devices. Edit the name to whatever you want to call it, optionally add or remove devices, and hit Done. Your new Scene is now ready for Capture and use.

WARNING: To avoid confusion, do not give two Scenes or two Groups the same name!


@bravenel do you know if Groups and Scenes support passing a transition time value to the devices within the group? The original group app did not support this, but was hoping the new app might?

It should. There was an update to the driver to support that.

Cool, i'll try it out when I get home.

But, there's no way to do that for a Scene, because it doesn't use a dimmer virtual switch -- it simply captures state. For a Group, if you put a transition on the group virtual bulb dimmer, that should work.

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Yes it's available, but remember it's down to the actual device to have this implemented. Certainly true for all HE zigbee drivers.

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I just want to say that the improvements in reducing popcorn effect and total transition time - even combining zigbee, zwave, lutron, and hue - using this new app have astounded me. The difference is so stark I had to pick my jaw up off the floor at least 3 times in my initial testing.

Thank you!


My existing groups no longer work right. I can click on/off on the virtual device and they work, but my Motion Lighting rules that call the groups only turn on the virtual device, not the actual linked devices.

That's odd. So if you turn on the virtual dimmer, they come on. But if the virtual dimmer is turned on by an automation they don't come on?

That's just strange.

That's correct. I went through the groups and re selected everything. Didn't help. I'll try to just recreate them tonight.

Before I do this:

Would there be any benefit to creating an "ALL LIGHTS" group for usage when turning off everything with a remote before bed? Would it be faster?

I have an all lights group, it works faster now.


If some of them are Zigbee bulbs, and you use the Zigbee group option, the answer would be yes, it would be faster. To turn all of those off is a single Zigbee command.

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Anyone have examples of scene usage? Curious what people are doing with it.

It would be VERY useful to be able to have an Alert/Speaking group. It could include things that support speakAndRestore (Sonos/DLNA Speaker) as well as Pushover. That way you could have things spoken also go to Pushover.

The Groups and Scenes we are discussing in this topic are about lighting, bulbs, dimmers and switches. Someone could certainly write an app such as you describe, but it doesn't really fit here.

So can a scene have multiple bulbs with each bulb being a different color?

Certainly. Set each member of the scene however you want, hit Capture, and that's it. Ready to go.

I recreated with the new Groups and Scenes app, and they work. They just refused to on the old app. It's really nice having both flick on at the exact same time now though!

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Good. Don't know what the other problem was, but at this point it doesn't really matter -- at least for you. :sunglasses: