2.2.7 Zigbee OTA updates

Do you actually know if Ikea maintains two firmware versions with different Zigbee application profiles?
It would be very unusual if they did, Ikea Zigbee devices are amongst the cheapest devices available, and this is reflected in their firmware implementations, in short, its low budget and usually incomplete.

If the ZB3 devices were actually available, you probably wouldn't need a custom driver...

Zigbee 3 isn't a panacea for bad mesh issues any more than ZLL is mesh death...

There are good routers and there are bad routers, and as usual on planet earth there is no free lunch, and you generally get what you pay for.


Isn't that the truth - I grabbed some ultra cheap ZB 3 bulbs - "Liokkie" (eWeLink) - they paired and worked fine but most died after 3 or 4 months - suspect inadequate cooling. Still have a couple left..

The quality of the cheapo stuff seems to slowly be getting better over time though as the manufacturing improves/standardizes. Still hit or miss though. At least ZB 3 in theory promises backwards compatibility and stricter spec adherence (haha).


@aaiyar My bad, with "non standard zigbee" I meant no Zigbee at all, but integration via API etc.
What do you mean there are no ZLL Tradfri devices supported by Hubitat? Out of the blue I would say all of my Ikea devices should be ZLL, since they are some years old, never saw a Ikea Tradfri Hub (thus never got updated) and the early Tradfri devices are ZLL if I can trust the information from Zigbee Alliance database and posts from times when Ikea Tradfri came out.

As I stated in an earlier post, it seems that way. I have not tried it yet.
And yes the Aqara device(s) is/are available. I have 10 of them here, cannot use them. Asked in the topics regarding them, if I can provide any information that could help editing the device driver. No answer yet. Thank you.
As you can tell, there are people out there way more familiar with Zigbee. I am actually counting on information which I got from users here and the mantra was: ZLL is bad, causes issues, ZHA is way better for Mesh. Hubitat does not support ZB3.0, but fallback is ZHA. For me that means: get ZB3.0 devices to be future prove and get a better Mesh.

Do I actually benefit from it? I don't know. Is it bad to have 2-3 ZLL devices in a "good" Mesh? I don't know. The only issues I have been the Hue GU10s, which I replaced. I have a similar issue with Tradfri bulbs, but not nearly as often as with the Hue. Also sometimes reaction times are a bit slow. Maybe that becomes better, maybe not. How do I know before trying updating the Ikea devices? If I do that and the information about ZLL to ZB3.0 is correct, I only have to replace the 3x Osram lights an I am almost ZLL free (only Hue stuff left from which I don't know the status), except the Garden Poles and Aqara sensors, which I have replacement for already.

I am also thinking about just getting an Aqara Hub, because maybe I could just eliminate my Harmony base and I bought bluetooth Aqara water sensors by mistake, which should pair with that base. The only problem with that idea is: I would have no Mesh, because I only pair sensors to the hub. I believe that is not a good idea.

I can think of some people who parrot this advice, but I don't think it's quite accurate. The Zigbee profile (ZLL, ZHA 1.2, Zigbee 3.0) per se is likely not the issue. It does happen to mostly coincide: many of the "naughty list" bulbs are ZLL, like early Hue, GE Link, Cree, and others. However, I think Sylvania/Lightify/Osram, which has historically had ZLL or ZHA 1.2 firmware for the same device depending mostly on region, are, I think, equally problematic on either firmware.

Most new bulbs, including a couple of the above brands, are Zigbee 3.0, and users anecdotally report fewer problems with those, but you'd really need someone with a sniffer to say objectively. That is how @mike.maxwell backed up his claims about the aforementioned bulbs in the early days of Hubitat--they were just eating things they were supposed to route. I don't know if he or anyone has looked at it since. But I don't think it's related to the Zigbee profile per se regardless. Personally, I still keep it safe by keeping all my bulbs on a different mesh.


the Aqara Zigbee 3.0 devices?, where exactly are these available? BTW alibaba and the like or direct from China don't count as available for most people, including me.
So if you want to loan them to me, I'll write/verify drivers for them...

There is nothing in the Zigbee 3.0 spec that would guarantee a better routing/mesh experience...
and anyone that thinks certification guarantees proper functionality just hasn't been exposed to many devices, Zigbee or Z-Wave...


Correct, it isn't...

Even Lowes Iris V1 devices (from the mid 2000's?) which use the alertMe Zigbee profile can and do route frames properly for ZHA 1.2 and ZLL profiles...

The issues with bad routers are crappy hardware and or firmware, it's that simple...


Yes, I ordered them 2-3 weeks ago on Aliexpress. I don't see the difference in buying them directly there (often with a EU warehouse nowadays) or via reseller for way more - especially because we do not really have a reseller in Germany for Aqara devices. Proshop is from Denmark and costs twice what I paid (and I am not sure they have the new sensors yet). Where are you located? Write me a PM! :slight_smile:

Okay. I was told that ZLL actually has.. oh boy how do I put this? :smiley: "Less space and thus long commands get shrinked or dropped"? Or how bertaabcd1234 put it: Eaten. So yes, I do believe that companies can mess up a product by bad software, I just thought by that explanation that it indeed is a protocol thing and does not happen with ZHA and ZB3.0 at least not to such an extend. Thanks for the clearification!

@mike.maxwell Can you have a lock at this problem with OTA updating the motion sensors as well? Does this work for you?

if the update fails, it fails, we have no control over the customers network space.
But yes, I have updated all of my Philips motion sensors, these were used extensively when testing the OTA update backend.

I live in the southern end of Nevada in the United States, if shipping to GR from US for these is reasonable we can return them, it's likely that shipping them back will cost more than the devices in the first place...

There's no way I will ever enter my cc info into a eCommerce site based out of China, that's how I feel about that. And trust me, I'm not a tin-foil kind of guy either...


Since I had quite some trouble updating the hue bulbs and lamps: I do agree with that. Nevertheless, with the motion sensors this is different. They fail right away and keep on stating "null" in the filename and version every single time. None of them has started the update to a certain percentage and failed. This is why I asked again. For me this behaviour "feels wrong" to be a customers network problem?!

I believe I can make that work. You could just return it to a US adress. Let me look into the fine print of postage tomorrow, I will PM you!

Haha, other people say that about Meta and/or Google :wink:

well, fail right off the bat, or fail halfway through, not much difference...
anyway, i've been unable to replicate this issue, so there's not much I can do.
diagnosing things like this requires having a frame capture running, which means you need to have the problem present in order to capture it...

Let me know about the other devices!

I see the difference in the filetype=null: For me it's a difference, if an update does not even start and fails, because it cannot find the file for the update or if it starts uploading a file and the Mesh is weak and fails then. But true, not having and not beeing able to reproduce that issue makes providing help very difficult. At least you were able to confirm that this worked for you at some point :man_shrugging:

Hi Mike.

I got one from Dresden to release the latest firmware for the FLS-PP3

Could you add this to your database?

what driver does this use?

It has 2 endpoints. One for white and one for RGB.
Hubitat hooks to the white channel and the generic zigbee bulb works fine with that.
BUT the OTAU function is on the RGB channel and none of the generic drivers will use that.
I totally forgot about that small hitch.

Is there a running list of firmwares somewhere I can compare to my devices?


Pssssst, hey guys....

Having yet to do much HA lighting other than external security stuff....a big chunk of this thread just adds to my mental note to... "screw the individual smart bulbs (and fancy color scenes) and focus on reliable well connected dimming switches w/ dimable LED bulbs for 80% of the lighting control".



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1st - Happy New 2022, keep up the good work and add some more services (like more luxury dashboard/custom tiles) !

Re Hue Motion Sensor, seems lots of people have problem with OTA ("Firmware update for [name:Hue Motion Sensor 2, manufacturer:Philips, imageFileName:null, fileVersion:null] failed, the device doesn't support wildcard file parameters.")
Any luck fixing it, or to use the route: Connect directly to Hue hub, then firmware update for couple of hours, then back connect to Hubitat?
, alternatively, can Hue motion sensor be connected to Hue hub like the bulbs and Hubitat to get the events from there?

You can hook up the hue motion sensor to your hue bridge and update it that way then put it back on Hubitat (it's faster that way)

Indeed, this is what I do for the moment, as I wrote above, but interested in OTA functioning as intended (currently broken for whatever reason) or Hubitat comm with sensor via Hue hub so to update firmware via Philips. Anyone from Hubitat can respond, pls?

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