Z-wave long range?

Are there any downsides? Latency? Battery?
I just found out about it and it seems like the ideal protocol for security (contact sensor on backyard gate, mailbox alerts and a temperature sensor for my freezer in the garage)
I’ve been trying to read but I have reading comprehension medical issues, my understanding is the new c8 hub has the radio but it isn’t enabled? I’m on a c-5 and wouldn’t mind getting the c8 pro

Yes, the C8 hub should be able to use z-wave long range when that capability is eventually added. I believe there’s no timeline on that, though.

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That’s what I thought I read. Do you know the hang up? Also, do you know the answer to my limitations question? If I’m in an area that zigbee will reach, is zigbee better?

I don’t really have any inside info, but I think it’s like anything else, they prioritize what they work on.

Since releasing the C8 and the C8 Pro, which both have an upgraded zigbee chip that has required further platform updates to get running smoothly for all users, they’ve also added HomeKit and Matter support, so there’s been an awful lot going on.

If a zigbee contact sensor works for you, then I’d say the main advantage is that you can use zigbee now regardless of which generation hub you have.

My understanding is there aren’t many z-wave long range devices out there, but that’s changing and I’m sure more will continue to become available in general.

Ultimately we only know that long range support will be added to Hubitat “soon,” but that could mean pretty much anything.

Thank you. 1st I’ve heard about matter. I remember I tried learning about it but got confused. I couldn’t understand why is it different than regular WiFi and the difference from thread, so I gave up :joy:

You’re not alone there. I’ve decided to pretty much ignore Matter for now.

Hey @frmWink2Hubitat as an alternative suggestion, especially if you want to get up and running ASAP, you may want to review what YoLink has available. Along with the Custom Community Driver for Hubitat.

Limited device availability, and next to zero commercial hub support at this a time.

All of my LR devices are being used on non-Hubitat hub/controllers, but have been in use for 9+ months. I wouldn't recommend others do it the way I did, I only cobbled together my current system as I needed to test some code on new devices I am working on.

I'm very much looking forward to Hubitat supporting LR - eventually. :roll_eyes:

Lower than mesh Zwave (and ZigBee) in almost 100% of scenarios.

Depends on signal strength/distance. It adjusts power to minimum needed for communication, so will typically have longer battery life than an equivalent mesh device in the same location. Will often use MORE battery than a traditional mesh device when use at max distance/power though as the max transmit power is higher than non-LR.

Great devices, but the devices are proprietary and external communications are a walled garden, so keep that in mind before diving in. If you needed a long range solution TODAY and could live with the data flow/cloud portion, it is a good option.

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Not sure about other brands, But Zooz has been methodically re-releasing their catalog with Zwave 800LR chips. Obviously since LR isn't enabled, we can't take full advantage of it now, but I'm hopeful it isn't too terribly far away. I haven't looked at Inoveli or Minoston, but I do suspect they may be in a similar update/release cycle.

Which is what Zigbee has always done.

Simple answer as a whole yes.

Not approved for the rest of the world yet.

It's one or the other, the device either connects in old mesh to other devices or it connects directly to the hub on LR. This is done at join stage and then won't change.

My experience with zigbee has been less than stellar.
So much so, that I've eliminated all repeaters and just use it for battery-powered sensors.
So, they all connect direct to hub.

At least there aren't any random zigbee radio outages anymore.
Other problems, yes, like recently when the sensors dropped out under generator power.

As long as there aren't any misbehaving devices, for me, Z-Wave is proving to be more reliable, and most of them connect direct to hub.

Doesn't the much vaunted Lutron do direct to hub only?

Conclusion: Mesh is Dead. Long Live Direct. :slight_smile:

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Yes, but that’s an apples-to-oranges comparison. And even ClearConnect makes use of repeaters when necessary (I have two in my RadioRA 2 system, for example).

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Just like anything else you do need to have good quality devices 3.0 is a must. However unlike Zigbee even when you have good quality devices with at least 700 series chip it means jack as the firmware from silicon labs has just been a nightmare since 700.

they were

Like @velvetfoot, my experience with Zigbee has been what many say their experience with Z-wave has been. It's been flaky at best. It's to the point now it is down to 3 hue motion sensors and three innr bulbs (Zigbee 3.0). Zigbee 3.0 actually caused a bunch of headaches for me when I rebuilt my mesh a few months ago. Building a proper mesh, they were too close to the hub, and the motion sensors the furthest away. They prevented the hue sensors from pairing with the hub. I tried everything avoiding Zigbee 3.0 repeater, pairing in the cleat. none of it worked. The only thing that did work was removing them, pairing the Hue sensors first, then adding the 3.0 devices back afterwards. I'm not adding anymore Zigbee. Eventually as matter matures a bit or if I find better Z-wave alternative, more I'll be removing these last ZigBee devices all together. most of my other motion sensors are Ring Gen 2 or Zooz ZSE18 (both 700 and 800 versions). Unfortunately, I need the lux reading, and neither of these sensors have that.

While I’m not currently utilizing YoLink (though I’m looking forward to doing so in the future), I wanted to contribute to the discussion since my previous comment was mentioned. I’m grateful for the chance to provide a nuanced perspective on the term ‘garden walled’ concerning YoLink’s ecosystem.

The presence of a public API highlights YoLink’s dedication to openness, encouraging community-driven solutions and broader integration capabilities (for example, two are available in HPM). This approach is comparable to that of companies like Lutron Caseta, which also depend on proprietary communication protocols yet are esteemed for their dependability and performance, including integration with Hubitat.

Indeed, YoLink’s system is predicated on cloud-based integration, as detailed in the API documentation. This is a significant factor for those in the DIY home automation community, where trade-offs are commonplace in the quest for optimal functionality.

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True, but that is only one part of the story. The radio technology used in 802.15.4 and Zwave LR or LoRa is night and day different. (EDIT: This is misleading so I am striking it out) Most 802.15.4 radios are almost a tin can and string compared to any spread spectrum or chirp based radio tech.

I do industrial 802.15.4 design and support daily, and have for 15+ years. I like it, and like ZigBee, but newer radio designs have many, many advantages.

Not really, but the statement is subjective so not worth arguing too much about. You're entitled to your opinion after all.

Which is cloud dependent and has now been significantly throttled as of last week. :wink: If they ever come out with fully local communication, like they PROMISED 2+ years ago but never delivered, I would be a lot more interested in their products (proprietary or not).

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Thank you for sharing that valuable insight! I genuinely appreciate it. I wasn't aware of these recent developments. As I'm considering this option, I'd love to dive deeper into the details you mentioned. Could you kindly share the articles or sources that discuss the recent throttling and the unfulfilled promise of fully local communication from two years ago? I'm eager to learn more and stay informed. Thanks again for bringing this to my attention!

There are lots of threads and discussions about the magical local control hub that never happened, mostly from Eric at YoLink. Just Google YoLink local control or YoLink lan control.

A quick one on throttling - I thought there was an official announcement by YoLink, but I can't find it:
https://www.reddit.com/r/YoLink_by_YoSmart/comments/1biv0af/yolink_device_restrictions_onto_api_your_smart/

It is on their website. As a new addition to their FAQ (highlighted in red below)

The portion highlighted in blue has been in their FAQ for 2 years (maybe more).

At this point, I would not count on any local access appearing. And the fact that they are restricting API access suggests it is hurting them financially. This does not augur well for their long-term survival.

Hope this helped!

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