Whats the best usb zwave stick to remove S0 security from fibaro devices?

[anitesh.a.kumar]

i have the following fibaro devices

https://www.fibaro.com/en/products/the-button/
https://manuals.fibaro.com/door-window-sensor-2/

Those devices show as up S0

I was to remove S0 because want a less chatty mesh.

whats the best usb zwave stick to remove S0 security from fibaro devices?

[johnwill1]

There’s no way to remove the S0 security alone. You have to first exclude the device which you can do with Hubitat, and then use the stick to include the device again without S0. I used the Aeotec 500 stick and the PC Controller software (part of Silicon Labs Simplicity Studio suite)

You would include the Z Wave Stick following the instructions in the document for removing Z Wave ghosts.

If you have those existing devices used in rules it might be worth creating virtual devices then cloning the rules, substituting the devices that will be excluded with the virtual ones. Once you've included the devices without security you can repeat that process, switching back from the virtual devices.

[Pantheon]

I use the Zooz S2 Stick 700 as described above.

[anitesh.a.kumar]

@johnwill1

There’s no way to remove the S0 security alone. You have to first exclude the device which you can do with Hubitat, and then use the stick to include the device again without S0. I used the Aeotec 500 stick and the PC Controller software (part of Silicon Labs Simplicity Studio suite)

yea that's the way.

Noob question, apart from changing security stuff for client devices, what else can the dongle do?

I believe it can be used to be the parent node? just like the old hubitat hubs have the attached USB z stick.

So these z sticks can pretty much do that. Nothing else i believe?

[rlithgow1]

Any usb stick will work.,

[anitesh.a.kumar]

@rlithgow1

Any usb stick will work.,

anything else the sticks can do?

[rlithgow1]

You can convert them to zniffers

[anitesh.a.kumar]

see my mesh

All 3 fibaro devices have S0 security. See above.

Fibaro Button has 21 neighbours So that's solid.
Garage Door sensor has 7 neighbours. Quite good.

Problem is the Pool Gate sensor only has 2 neighbours. Definitely has reception issues because the sensor is outside the house. And 1-2 brick walls in the middle.

Will removing S0 security help a device gain more neighbours?
Or adding a zwave range extender which acts as a repeater, the only way?

Aeotec Z-Wave Plus Range Extender 6

[johnwill1]

@anitesh.a.kumar

Or adding a zwave range extender which acts as a repeater, the only way?

My uneducated guess would be that having security set to 'none' rather than S0 might make that device work better if it has a poor connection to the hub already (less chatty over a poor link). Repeaters or additional powered Z Wave devices would be recommended; however I'm not sure (someone will confirm) whether that will result in more neighbours. Clearly it may increase neighbours by one if you add one repeater that the distant device can reach.

The way I see it, is that even with a large mesh of powered, repeating Z Wave devices, some devices have to be further than others from the hub and will have fewer neighbours regardless. I have 49 Z Wave devices in a smallish semi detached house. The devices geographically on the periphery that are further away have fewer neighbours as I'd expect (lowest is 2 then 8, highest is 44 of those 49)

[anitesh.a.kumar]

@johnwill1

There’s no way to remove the S0 security alone. You have to first exclude the device which you can do with Hubitat, and then use the stick to include the device again without S0. I used the Aeotec 500 stick and the PC Controller software (part of Silicon Labs Simplicity Studio suite)

is there any set by step guide on this? from software installation to pairing to USB stick with S0 off?

[johnwill1]

I used the post/document that details how to remove ghosts with a Z Wave stick. It’s referred to often on the forum.

[danabw]

How To: Remove Ghosts using hub tools or a UZB Stick

The information below can help you resolve problems w/your Z-Wave mesh caused by Z-Wave device "ghosts." Section 4 of this guide and the PDF download included in it covers using a Z-Wave USB stick to remove ghosts. That section only applies to Z-Wave devices joined as "mesh" devices. Z-Wave LR devices may be joined as either Mesh or LR. If joined as LR you can't them with a secondary controller like a USB Z-Wave stick, you can only do it from the primary controller (the HE hub). Review below f…

[johnwill1]

I always struggle to find that post when needed....I downloaded the doc a couple of years ago but need to again as it's been updated since

[anitesh.a.kumar]

@johnwill1

I always struggle to find that post when needed....I downloaded the doc a couple of years ago but need to again as it's been updated since

Hubitat-Remove-Ghost-Instructions.pdf

Z-Wave command class configuration tool download.

[anitesh.a.kumar]

tried on device 44

changed to S2 unauthenticated. Click OK. And then Update.

S0 does not disappear from HE. I restarted HE as well. Nothing changes.
Connect Zstick to HE again and see it's still S0. So looks like the changes dont go through?

[rlithgow1]

@anitesh.a.kumar

S0 does not disappear from HE. I restarted HE as well. Nothing changes.
Connect Zstick to HE again and see it's still S0. So looks like the changes dont go through?

You have to first exclude the s0 device from hubitat, you cannot just change security on it. Then you need to re pair the device to the z-wave stick while the z-wave stick is connected to hubitat as a secondary controller and set the include to pair without security. You do the pairing procedure in the silabs software not on hubitat.

[anitesh.a.kumar]

@rlithgow1

Then you need to re pair the device to the z-wave stick while the z-wave stick is connected to hubitat as a secondary controller and set the include to pair without security.

this part is there a guide on this? i couldn't search find it.

Shift Primary Z Wave Control to Secondary Stick?

Ok, so I figured out a method which works, although it requires two USB controllers. Controller A will become the primary controller in the end, and controller B will be used as an intermediary. Plug both USB controllers into a PC, run two instances of the PC Controller software, and configure one for each of the corresponding virtual serial ports. Join each USB controller to the Hubitat Z-Wave Mesh (Put hub into inclusion mode, press Learn on PC Controller). They will both be Inclusion contro…

this one?

[anitesh.a.kumar]

quite a lengthy process to remove S0 from client devices. Would be good if hubitat just allowed the security choice when i do inclusion.

[johnwill1]

@anitesh.a.kumar

Would be good if hubitat just allowed the security choice when i do inclusion.

This has been covered many times. There is nothing Hubitat can do as it's part of the Silabs Z-Wave SDK. If a device does not support S2, the Silabs SDK enforces inclusion at the highest supported security. If the device supports S2 you get to choose S0, any S2 or 'None'. In the case of Fibaro, some devices - your buttons, Dimmer 2 and some 500 series devices do not support S2 so get included with S0. Fibaro RGBW2, Outlet, Smart Implant support S2 (even though they are 500 series) and so can be included easily with security choice.

However I agree that it's a right pain in the a**e to include these devices without security and I'd consider it beyond the capabilities of your 'average' smart home user. Silabs should remove the requirement. I dread having to add or replace a Z Wave device. Unfortunately in the UK we are very restricted to choice and finding a Z Wave 700 device for a particular function (in 868MHz) may not be possible.

[rlithgow1]

@anitesh.a.kumar

Would be good if hubitat just allowed the security choice when i do inclusion.

That isn't something up to Hubitat, that is a silabs issue.