I recently migrated to a C-5 hub so I could keep the external USB radio and eliminate the need to re-pair all my devices. Process was pretty seamless once I got the correct micro USB dongle.
The performance and stability improvements are insane. Daily reboots are no longer needed. Web UI taking 30+ seconds to load are gone. Rules and actions fully complete the first time, every time.
It's amazing how much better everything is - even though the hardware is basically the same, DB and config are the same, radio is the same. The only real difference is the 64-bit vs 32-bit JVM.
This is exciting. I have a pair of C-5s that have been sitting on the shelf for a long time. I still use my C-4 as the workhorse.
Exactly what is involved in moving from a C4 to C5?
I assume you do a soft reset on the C5 and restore a current C4 backup and then move the USB stick. Is that it? That would be a snap even for an old geezer like me.
I have the method detailed by Bruce, but it is a bit more involved than what I just described.
You'll need a dongle to provide power to the C-5 and connect the USB stick at the same time. This is the one I used:
I downloaded a full backup from the C-4 and powered it down. I purchased a used C-5 that had been fully reset and restored the backup to it.
Once the DB was restored and the C-5 rebooted, all my apps and devices came right over, no re-pairing needed.
There were a few extras I had to do for some of my apps such as Google Home, Hub Connect and Dashboard links but nothing more then a reconnect with the new hub ID.
A few days after testing I factory reset the C-4 and packed it away. Anyone want to buy a C-4?
Super. I think this weekend ill give it a try. I have one of the dongles already that i bought some time ago. Thanks for the information and inspiration.
I am in a similar position with an original C-4 which does most things and I purchased a C5 to handle additional stuff including mainly LAN devices. It might be better to switch them around and would be easy based on what you are saying regarding the dongles... however - didn't hubitat say the specs are the same?
I believe that they are the same apart from the internal radios on the C5.
IIRC the C7 is also similar specs to the C5 (might even be the same) apart from the internal Z-Wave radio is the 700 series.
Both the C5 and C7 use a 32-bit JVM whereas the C4 uses a 64-bit JVM. The 32-bit JVM seems to have a lower memory footprint which gives the C5 and C7 more headroom.
Anecdotally C4 users seem to be experiencing more issues with memory stability lately, possibly the more features that are added to the firmware releases the greater the burden is becoming. Up until several months ago I was running an older 2.2.4.x series firmware on my C4's with reasonable stability but since subsequently updating to 2.2.5 / 2.2.6 / 2.2.7 it does seem to be getting worse. They're both pretty static in terms of devices / apps and literally zero load according to the runtime stats, so I can only conclude the platform updates are slowly increasing memory usage.
There's a few threads floating around with people trying to track down C5's for an easier migration path as you can move your Nortek stick across.
Unfortunately that currently doesn't work on a C7, a couple of us have requested Hubitat to look into it so hopefully it's something they can implement. If not then C5 is the way to go ..... or suck it up and do a full migration to a C7.
I'll give that a go - switching over my c4 and c5 so that the bulk of the network is running through the C5.
There is another thread on here - this one:
Where people have been able to upgrade the firmware on their nortek stick, and then are able to do a proper native NVM backup of it. If Hubitat also allowed manually uploading an NVM backup it would be possible in theory to restore that backup to the Z-wave chip in the C7.. thereby enabling people to move from C4/C5 --> C7 without repairing all of. their devices... which can be impractical
Not sure if that will be possible for Z-Wave since it's an entirely new 700 series chip and I believe they're forced to use the new Z/IP gateway functionality so it likely depends on what that allows for backup / restore.
I believe that the ZigBee chip is the same though through all the versions, just internal on the C5 / C7. I don't think their current chip firmware supports backup / restore but could be possible in the future hopefully if there's a way to update it.
ZigBee coordinator migration is a bit of a black art from what I've seen since the EUI64 address is hardcoded into the coordinator chip. You'd need to move that to a new chip for a seamless migration. There's a few links on google that seem to suggest it might be possible in later chip firmwares e.g. GitHub - walthowd/husbzb-firmware: Nortek GoControl HUSBZB-1 / EM3581 Firmware update image
I thought for zigbee there is no need to use the original stick when going from c4-->c5 and once you do the restore you can use the internal zigbee - is that not the case?
When you restore a backup from a C4 on a C5 no radio data (Z-Wave or ZigBee) is bought across.
For ZigBee you have to re-pair all devices - they do slot back in to their existing ID's though, so you don't have to redo any apps, rules, etc like you do with Z-Wave. But there's still some hassles around actually doing the re-pairing, especially configuration. I mentioned some of mine over at Anyone have a C5 they aren't using?
That's why it's currently quite appealing for C4 users to be able to move their Nortek stick over to a C5 as it means both Z-Wave & ZigBee devices from that stick carry across. It's literally as simple as moving the stick and restoring the backup as the OP mentioned.
I'm not sure if it works with multiple sticks, since the C5 only has a single micro USB port and needs an OTG cable to allow power and use of a port simultaneously.
Not sure if anybody has ever tried a USB hub on the OTG cable, if that did work then you could try both sticks .... not sure what would happen on the platform side though, whether it would detect both and do the right thing or get confused as it wasn't expecting to have to choose between 3 Z-Wave radios ....
Yes I it does. It seemed to work okay when moving from my C-4 using an OTG but ran into other issues like being unable to change the channel - not sure why though might have been something I did. In the end I just restored from a backup, removed all my Z-Wave device entries and did a discovery/pair on the Zigbee stuff. All my devices were found and worked with existing config. Wasn't too bad - I have 75 or so Zigbee and 60+ Z-Wave+ devices.
Note: I am using a C-5 for Zigbee and Cloud stuff and C-7 for Z-Wave+.
I never used the z-wave stick that came with the c5 because I was continuing to use the c4 for most stuff and c5 for additional processor intensive stuff.
Now that I am switching them around I took a look at the stick that came with the c5... and its a uzb7 - i.e. 700 series - so... does this mean if I copy across my z-wave backup to this using a computer I could just use that with the c7 snd get all the additional benefits straight away?
I am not experienced enough to give you some good advice for that. I think technically you could backup the Z-Wave table via some other sw (PC Controller maybe?) and restore to another one but don't know if you could with different models. Maybe someone else can chime in with this.
On a side note - UZB-7 came with a C-5? That's very cool thing although not a US configuration as we use the internal radios. We have to buy ours separately if we want one. Good news is the price is not bad at $20 USD.
Currently I don't believe the C7 will look at any external USB radios at all so I don't think that would work.
From what I've gleaned the ZigBee chip across C7, C5 and C4 (external Nortek) is the same, so technically I don't believe there's any reason why the Nortek wouldn't work in the C7 for ZigBee like it does in the C5. Obviously I don't know how Hubitat works internally but from a purely Linux OS point of view I would imagine it's just a case of pointing their software at the right port that's created when the stick is plugged in.
What stick are you currently using in the C4 for Z-Wave?
I don't see any reason why that wouldn't physically work, as in the USB hub would be recognised and present both sticks at the OS level. It's just what the Hubitat software would do at the software level.
From other reports we know that the C5 will pick the Nortek for both ZigBee and Z-Wave over the internal radios, but I don't think anybody has ever tried to see what it would choose if presented with a third option i.e. a separate stick for Z-Wave.
