V2 Iris Keypad setup howto needed


#1

Okay, I have viewed all the Iris keypad topics available and still can't see anywhere a definitive guide to setting up an Iris V2 keypad. I have seen where people have said they have gotten it to work. I think I finally have it worked out but it took some time and frustration to do so.

Here is what I want to do:
Press "PARTIAL" for activating the security Arm to Night with contact sensors active but motion detectors not active.
Press "ON" to activate all sensors Arm to Away.
Enter code and "OFF" to disarm the system for either of the above.

I paired the keypad with the hub with no problem. What is not clear and I just figured out is that to enter a code or set delays is to enter the value and then click the box above the entry to make it take. This was a trial and error type of learning. It would be very helpful if this were documented to help others who have been stuck for some time in getting this configured.

The other part of this is the HSM app. There are two options for the keypad. Through trial and error, I think I have it figured out. I have selected the option "Use this keypad(s) for arm and disarm, partial for Night" with the Centralite Keypad selected as the option. I did not select the other option of "Use this keypad(s) for arm and disarm, partial for Home." I also did not use the slider to select "Use disarm to disarm all?"

So far, it seems to be doing what I want in the brief tests I have done. Again, if there were a "howto" for the keypad available, it would save a lot of frustration for those of us migrating from Iris.


#2

I went through this yesterday. Got caught up initially by no responses, removed-replaced batty's. Started responding. Then assumed that since I could choose not to enter code to disarm that this actually worked with Iris V2, wrong. A tutorial would have helped but the batty thing was what had me going for a while.


#3

None of this is needed. The delays are set via HSM and HSM sends the appropriate programming to the keypads.

For the security codes: Use the "Lock Code Manager" app to set those up. You don't need to do any of that directly on the device driver. The HSM and LCM apps together take care of all of that for you.

-Jeremy


#4

This is why I said that I need a "howto" to find these things out. My question is if these are done through the lock code manager, why is the capability to enter codes in the keypad app? If I have entered the codes I want already in the keypad app, do I really need to delete them there and then enter them through the lock code manager?

There was quite a learning curve to Iris also in the beginning. A good part of a howto would be to document these for people migrating from Iris so each of us does not end up re-inventing the wheel.

-Stephen


#5

You saw the Lock Code Manager doc? Under the Renaming Users section, it explains how lock code manager imports from locks and keypads.


#6

LCM does not seem to integrate with either my Iris Gen 2 keypad or my Schlage locks. I don't see it's purpose. I have pushed the "Get codes" buttons, done resets, refreshed, set preferences, etc. to no avail


#7

Your codes are 4 digit?


#8

Yes


#9

Tagging @mike.maxwell, as he might know what's going on.


#10

I did not see that until I followed the link in your post. As it is, it imports the user already set in the device setup which is where I had already set up the user and code for me and another code for my wife. These did read when I installed the LCM app. As I do not have any locks, I doubt I will be using any functions of the LCM beyond what I already had set up in the Keypad setup. Perhaps one day I will get some locks and then I will have a use for the LCM app.


#11

When you say "keypad app" are you referring to the Keypad device under the "Devices" section? If so: that's not an app at all (Thus why it's not under the "Apps" section in HE). It's actually the device driver interface (In SmartThings it would be called a "Handler"). So when you set codes on that screen you're directly invoking the command capabilities of that devices driver and sending it low level Zigbee commands. If you send it invalid input for example, it will silently fail (It might show an error in the log, but the driver itself won't tell you it failed). These driver buttons are mostly there for advanced usage and/or troubleshooting, not really designed for basic end user usage.

The analogy here would be like if you said "If I'm supposed to use a Word Processing program to write papers then why does this hard disk driver allow me write bytes of data directly to the disk?" Like most computing platforms: The idea is that you would be using "Apps" to do most things in HE. Those apps may make use of devices to do their tasks as needed. And that's exactly what Lock Code Manager is: it's an app that automates the process of sending those low level device instructions to all of your keypads and/or locks. You don't have to use it the same way you could write your research papers by directly writing bytes of text to disk. However you're likely not going to find a "How to" on doing it that way because that's not how it was intended to be used.

Same thing with the exit delays on the keypad: You can set them manually via the driver but HSM is going to reset them anyway whenever you configure HSM to use that keypad. There's no point in setting those manually. In fact setting them manually can cause problems if they get out of sync with how HSM is configured.

I think some of the confusion might be coming at it from the angle of "How do I make this exact make/model keypad work?" rather than "How do I use the HSM app with my Keypads?" The challenge with a question like that is that there are a lot of definitions of "work" in that context. Some people use keypads to arm/disarm an alarm/monitoring app like HSM while others may use the same keypads to open/close their garage doors or driveway gates. Some people even use keypads to unlock doors for Smartlocks that don't have a keypad built in to the lock. Asking how to make a keypad "work" in HE is sort of like asking how to make a hard drive "work" in a computer: You're going to get a lot of different answers that may not really be the answer you're looking for because there are so many different valid uses for that device. The other angle is that from an HSM perspective all of the keypads work the same. There may be minor differences in pairing them but as long as it's a "supported" Keypad it should work the same as any other supported keypad.

I think it's easier for us to provide a helpful answer if you start with exactly what you're trying to accomplish (IE: The final end result you want to achieve) and then it's easier to provide guidance to get you there. IE: Are you wanting to use HSM for home security? And you want to use the keypad to arm/disarm HSM? etc etc. In this context it makes almost no difference which keypad you have. Pretty much all of the supported keypads are set up exactly the same way.

In other words you're probably never going to find a "How to set up an Iris V2 keypad" document. Instead you might expect to find a "How to set up HSM" document that goes over how to utilize keypads within HSM. (The current HSM how-to document definitely glosses over keypads though, so that's still very much a fair critique.)

HE is a very new platform so the docs are definitely not fully fleshed out. The community is pretty much the place to go to for "How to" and it may involve actually posting and asking the question before you get started because the HE team is still working on fleshing out the various official "How to" documents at https://docs.hubitat.com

It sounds like you pushed your way through it and got understandably frustrated at the lack of docs and then came here to post about the frustrating experience rather than to really ask a question. Which is entirely fine! However: if you had came here as soon as you realized you weren't sure how to proceed and simply asked "Hey everyone, can anyone tell me how to do this?" we probably could have saved you a lot of headache. :slight_smile: I understand that the lack of docs is definitely frustrating for those of us that prefer to RTFM rather than ask for help... but I can say that I migrated here from SmartThings just a few months ago and I've already seen leaps and bounds improvements in both docs and usability. Anytime I didn't know how to do something I posted a question before I got too deep down the rabbit hole and I almost always got an answer within hours of posting. HE as a platform is barely over a year old so it still has a lot of maturing to do around documentation. I feel like they make up for it though on this community site. If you can't find a "How to" document simply post here and ask "How do I do this"? And the answers to your post will effectively become the "How to document" as other people search for the same question and find the same post.

In other words: Please don't hesitate to post questions. We're all pretty good about trying to help out new users. Especially don't let yourself get too frustrated trying to figure it out on your own before asking.

Have you opened a ticket with support? I have four Iris (Centralite) V2 keypads and six Kwikset locks. LCM works fine on all of them for me. I ran into a few bugs early on but I reported them to Support and they got fixed in the next release. I've had no issues with LCM since then.


#12

I have a ticket concerning another aspect of the locks. I am about to pull one of my locks and send it to Mike so he can examine and discover as needed. i am doing this for the other FE599 owners as well as myself as it seems quite a few people have quirks they are trying to resolve. I discovered my keypad and tried to push the codes to it via LCM with no luck. Tried get codes, etc. so had to manually enter them. I am going out of the country soon and need a basic HA and security system in place, my trouble shooting time is limited. I look forward to learning all the aspects of HE and will need to work my way through my own needs and challenges in the future. This community is a great help and much appreciated


#13

You may have run across this truism around here somewhere: Hubitat is like Lego's, you can't do much with one block, you need many blocks in order to build something interesting. *

The Driver is a Lego Block as much as anything, It abstracts multiple vendors of similar devices into one set of capabilities and commands. Apps, another Lego Block, uses the driver Lego Block to provide functionalities we often call an Automation/Routine, etc.

The driver MUST expose the lock code access in order that RM or LCM can interact. Before LCM, yes, we had no choice but to use the exposed driver commands to get a result.

All of which makes it just plain old HARD to a new user. Search the Forum and a March 2018 response explaining how to do something directly contradicts a message from December 2018. (Before LTM, vs after LTM.)

  • first attributed to RuleMachine as people encountered the need for multiple Rules.

#14

Yes, I meant Keypad Device Settings, not Keypad App.

From my original message:
Here is what I want to do:
Press "PARTIAL" for activating the security Arm to Night with contact sensors active but motion detectors not active.
Press "ON" to activate all sensors Arm to Away.
Enter code and "OFF" to disarm the system for either of the above.

Yes, I want to use the HSM app for home security. I was frustrated because although I had searched all the topics on the Iris V2 Keypad, I could not find anything definitive in how to get it set up other than reading that others got it to work and that the driver supported it. I did finally get it working, perhaps not in the "right" way. Nonetheless, it is working. The problem for a new user is knowing what questions to ask (or search for prior topics). If one has no experience, one often does not even know what questions to ask. If I am trying to get a keypad configured, it makes sense that I would search for keypad information, not for the LCM or HSM app information. That is why I posted my topic.

The next thing I will tackle is my CT101 Radio Thermostat.


#15

These are fair points. The user documentation is pretty well linked to and promoted, but not everyone follows the same path to learning about Hubitat. Many will do exactly what you did, just right onto the forum and quickly get frustrated. Not that the forum isn't a helpful place for information, but everyone is on a different level, and so much is often unintentionally assumed in conversations. There's room for improvement of course. The Hubitat Elevation docs are a work in progress and still have many gaps. It's probably a good idea to have some sort of matrices that can point the device types to the document covering the app that will be needed for automation.

Having specific setup documents for every type of device with Hubitat is a bit much, so I don't expect they'll go for that. There's also a lot of model variations for many of the device types too. Iris keypad, for example, has four different versions.


#16

Yes, some sort of matrices to guide one to relevant resources would be very helpful. Specific device help is good also, but perhaps an overall topic area for setup with sub-topics for different device types and within that, questions and answers about specific devices would be a good way to organize things to make them easier for the novice (like me) to find the correct information.

For example, there is already a "Getting Started" topic area. However, there is no order to the message topics in that area. What would help is something like

"Getting Started"
Hub
Installation
Configuration
Dashboard
Configuration
Adding and Configuring Tiles
Devices
Compatible Devices List
Connecting and Configuring Devices
Zigbee
Z-Wave
Apps
App definitions
App configuration (examples)
Settings
Description and examples

This might be a starting point for organizing the information to make it easier to find. Hopefully, this will help stimulate some ideas to make the forum better.

Edit: All my indentations disappeared so it is not as easy to see what I was trying to picture.


#17

docs.hubitat.com has that structure. The community area is for QA and sharing primarily. The problem with trying to organize info in the forum, is everyone (myself included) gets onto other topics within a thread, because its interesting, and frankly, that's what the forum is for.


#18

Yes, but while the docs have structure, the docs lack specifics. The community area has specifics but lack a usable structure. If the community had a structure generally paralleling the docs structure, it would be more useful.


#19

Yeah, I get your point. The docs should be general so they can serve multiple users and device types. The forum is a challenge for sure. There is a supported devices "wiki" on the forum that has generally stayed pretty well organized, although it's not necessarily up to date in every respect, but it can be edited by anyone here.

Search is the best way to find things on the forum, but Discourse search leaves a lot to be desired. I sometimes just use Google and it directs me back to the forum if I put Hubitat in the search string. The issue is the same on SmartThings because they use Discourse as well. You basically do best by asking and waiting a lot of the time, since we're all acting as human search engines to compensate for the weak search engine in Discourse.

Also, in case you missed the categories organization on the forum, there's a Wiki category. Once the documentation moved to an actual Wiki page, the forum wiki didn't get much love.


#20

Stephen is puzzled: why is something I'm not intended to use, the first thing I see after I pair a device? Answer: not much thought has been put into process yet. Process-oriented people like me have had to chill. But I hear that much work is being put into the interface as we speak... it can't come soon enough for me :wink:

I agree that Hubitat provides too many options on day one to make the transition from Iris very easy. One thing that calmed me down was being told that there are many ways to accomplish the same thing in Hubitat. If you are searching for "best practices"... there may not be an accepted one yet. A couple times I've wanted to give up, but having spent days building a spreadsheet of all the alternatives to Iris, I found Hubitat was the winner. It's the most capable and uses the most of my existing devices.

Just keep asking questions til you understand. I've been asking several a day, for a couple weeks. I might be an Iris Transition expert soon!