Hi guys,
I am trying to follow up on the discussion but failed to understand it the conclusion of the devices being a 5.8 G rather than a 24 G apply to all of the products listed in this post.
I bought this one:
Is it also a fake one?
Is it also a fake one?
Hi Amithalp,
It turned out that these devices are misleadingly advertized as 24 GHz radars, while in fact they have 5.6 Ghz mmWave module inside. You can check yours, it can be opened very easy by just unscrewing 2 screws at the back side of the plastic box. If the mmWave module looks like in this picture, it is 100% 5.6 Ghz.
I wouldn't use the word 'fake' anymore, as these are real mmWave sensors, they seems to work OK, they are significantly less chatty than the previous TS0601 Tuya-based 5.6GHz radars, they have a lot of configuration options.
So they work but are not 24Ghz radars.
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On my first try Aliexpress is rejecting the refund for not being a 24ghz sensor even though the listings for the products I purchase still say 24ghz in the titles. I uploaded the photos. Disappointing. Maybe not surprised?
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So for those of us who are uniformed, what are the benefits of 24Ghz vs. 5.6Ghz? I assume there are range/accuracy differentials? Basically, what are the reasons to prefer 24Ghz?
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This is how it looks like in the indise:
But this is the user manual attached:
So, I guess I am on the same boat with you guys, Hey......at least we have each other 
Also, the device itself is working nice.
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At a high level a few of the key differences:
- 24g can detect much smaller movements so things like presence vs movement are possible.
- 24g has less wall or material penetration which can help within the house with false positives.
- 24g has much more data for processing which generally can support better accuracy.
- 24 is bigger than 5.8 so it's just plain better
I have said it and I think its fair to say that even with the 5.8g sensors these devices probably work better than PIR sensors. I absolutely do not condone listing a 5.8g product as a 24g product and charging 24g prices, but if these were listed as 5.8g I think people would still buy them.
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Now, I am negotiating for a partial refund with the seller.. : )
BTW, I've got in touch with the manufacturer of these devices (all AliExpress sites are just resellers). He (the manufacturer) is saying that "....At the beginning of last month, we notified most of the sellers and changed the parameter to 5.8G" So for me, it looks like it is mostly AE seller's failure nor updating the descriptions on time.
He is saying also, that "...we did produce 24G products in the early days, and later because of the wrong 24G alarm, the experience is not very good. After 24G matures, 24G radar will be used again"
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I see that most of the AE sellers have now updated the description, although if I am not mistaken - they do not state the radar frequency... this again is not ideal as the sellers are not stating a key specification.
AE and/or the manufacturer should do more and take action against some sellers who are still advertising these radars as 24Ghz and get others to correctly state that they are 5.8Ghz so there is no confusion for the consumer.
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I have updated the first post with some useful information from the manufacturer site :
Radar parameter setting instructions
(original link: https://doc.szalarm.com/zg-205Z/en/ ).
Note: The terms and the parameters used in SmartLife / Z2M may differ from these used in this driver.
Radar parameter instructions
Detailed Description of Radar Parameter Settings
Logic of radar detection
The triggering of the device from "NONE" to "Presence" state must first detect large movements in order to trigger radar small movements and static detection;
For example, when a person enters the detection area, the radar only activates small actions and static detection after detecting this large movement;
Workflow:： "NONE" Only activate large motion detection-> Detected significant movement (with someone) -> Start small actions and static detection -> Personnel walked away -> Countdown (Presence Keep Time)-> "NONE" ;
From the detection logic, it can be analyzed that the detection from "NONE" to "Presence" is only related to the "Large motion detection" parameter; After the person walked away, related to the detection parameters of "Small motion detection" and "Stationary detection";
So for radar parameter debugging, the first step is to adjust the "Large motion detection" parameter first
Attention! After setting radar parameters each time, it takes 10 seconds for the radar to function properly;
When the "Large motion detection distance" is set to 0, the radar will stop all detection;
When only Large movement detection is required, the "Small motion detection distance" and "Stationary detection distance" can be set to 0;
Why am I still detected while standing behind the radar?
Answer: Due to the fact that millimeter wave signals are reflected or repeatedly reflected when encountering objects such as walls after being emitted, false alarms can be detected on the human body. Therefore, it is only necessary to reduce the millimeter wave transmission power to reduce the reflection and cancel false alarms. You can turn down the "Large motion detection distance" or "Large motion detection sensitivity".
At this point, you can set the "Large motion detection sensitivity" to 5x and reduce the "Large motion detection distance" to an appropriate parameter (such as 300cm) to eliminate false positives;
You only need to set the "Small motion detection" and "Stationary detection" parameters when the following situations occur;
1.When you do not need to detect micro motion or respiratory detection, you can disable it by setting the "Small motion detection distance" and "Stationary detection distance" to 0.;
2.When you find that after a long time of leaving (which is greater than the "Presence Keep Time"), the app still shows Presence (Small motion, or Stationary), then you need to adjust the "Small motion detection" and "Stationary detection" parameters. Based on the results of the false alarm, adjust the "Small motion detection" and "Stationary detection" parameters;
How to set radar parameters?
Installed in the living room
- Adjust the "Large motion detection sensitivity" to 6x and set the "Large motion detection distance" according to the size of the space, not exceeding the actual length of the room.
2.Adjust the "Small motion detection sensitivity" to 8x and set the "Small motion detection distance" according to the size of the space，Suggest 5 meters.
3.Adjust the "Stationary detection sensitivity" to 8x and set the "Stationary detection distance" according to the size of the space，Suggest 5 meters.
4."Presence Keep Time" Set to 1 minute or more.
- Hang the equipment 2 meters high and fix it, without swinging. There should be no obstruction within 50cm around the equipment, and adjust the angle to align with the area to be tested.
Installed in the entrance and hallway
1.Adjust the "Large motion detection sensitivity" to 6x and set the "Large motion detection distance" according to the size of the space，Suggest 3 meters.
2.Adjust the "Small motion detection sensitivity" to 5x and set the "Small motion detection distance" according to the size of the space，Suggest 3 meters。
3.Turn off the 'Stationary detection distance' by setting it to 0.
4."Presence Keep Time" Set to 30 second
Installed in the restroom
1.Adjust the "Large motion detection sensitivity" to 6x and set the "Large motion detection distance" according to the size of the space，Suggest 3 meters.
2.Adjust the "Small motion detection sensitivity" to 5x and set the "Small motion detection distance" according to the size of the space，Suggest 3 meters.
3.Adjust the "Stationary detection sensitivity" to 5x and set the "Stationary detection distance" according to the size of the space，Suggest 3 meters.
3."Presence Keep Time" Set to 60 second.
How to solve false alarms?
How to solve false alarms？
Please do not worry and read the following content carefully.
If the space is messy or large, please install the equipment at a height of approximately 2 meters and secure it properly. The product should not be shaken or aimed at devices that may cause movement, such as curtains, desktop computers, fans, etc. Secondly, there must be an open area of 50 centimeters around the device and no other interfering objects are allowed；
Please pay attention to the rationality of the installation and do not casually place it on the table for testing, and then feel that the product is unstable and give a negative rating!
2、Please carefully read the detailed description of radar parameters；
Attention! After setting radar parameters each time, it takes 10 seconds for the radar to function properly;
Why am I still detected while standing behind the radar?
Answer: Due to the fact that millimeter wave signals are reflected or repeatedly reflected when encountering objects such as walls after being emitted, false alarms can be detected on the human body. Therefore, it is only necessary to reduce the millimeter wave transmission power to reduce the reflection and cancel false alarms. You can turn down the "Large motion detection distance" or "Large motion detection sensitivity".
Why is there no one at night, but occasionally someone is still detected?
Answer: From "NONE" to "Presence" is only related to the "Large motion detection" parameter,You can turn down the "Large motion detection distance" or "Large motion detection sensitivity";
Why did the personnel leave for a long time, but still detect someone?
Answer: In this case, the radar signal may be reflected for some reason. You can adjust the installation angle or reduce the "Small motion detection distance" or "Stationary detection distance"
Why is it possible to detect someone outside when it rains?
Answer: Do not face the sensor out of the window. You can reduce the "Large motion detection distance" and "Large motion detection sensitivity" parameters to a suitable one.
Why is someone detected next door?
Answer: Millimeter wave signals can penetrate glass, gypsum walls, wooden walls, and even solid walls, so you can reduce the "Large motion detection distance" and "Large motion detection sensitivity" to one appropriate parameter, and the detection distance should not exceed the actual distance of the room.
What is the role of Presence Keep Time?
What is the role of Presence Keep Time?
For example, if the 'Presence Keep Time' is set to 60 seconds, the radar will not immediately report unmanned status when the person leaves, but will need to wait for 60 seconds before reporting unmanned status；
Is' Presence Keep Time 'set as small as possible?
Answer: No, it is not possible because it takes about 5 seconds for the radar to detect and lock micro movements, and 40 seconds or more for locking breathing. If it is set to 0 seconds, there may be a false alarm of no one. There is another situation, for example, if you leave the detection area for a while and do not want the radar to report that there is no one to turn off the lights, you can set this hold time according to the situation;
How to set the 'Presence Keep Time'?
Answer: When you install it in an aisle and someone turns on the lights or turns off the lights when they leave, you can set the presence retention time to 0 seconds. When installing in the living room, it is recommended to set it at least 1-2 minutes, and when installing in the restroom, it is recommended to set it at least 30 seconds. When you install it above the bed and can detect people while sleeping, it is recommended to set it to at least 15 minutes.
Electronic manual:
https://doc.szalarm.com/zg-205Z/doc/zg-205zl.pdf(post deleted by author)
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Accept for the fact that the manual still clearly states 24g in the box. My seller is still selling this as a 24g item. My other 5.8g product has no response from the seller after 2 days.
I call BS on the explanation, but honestly, that means nothing. Makes no difference if the story is true or not.
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What 24 GHz sensor are they using in the ES1?
Looks like a Hi-link HLK-LD2410*
LD2410 has a Bluetooth built-in. If phone can see it in the list of BT devices than
this is LD2410 sensor. Furthermore there is an app for turning and monitoring
this toy. And if you have a Home Assistant it will find this sensor instantly.
LD2410B has bluetooth. I didn't see this one show up in a bluetooth scan. What does the name show for you on your device?
That is what I was thinking. I can use Home Assitant to pair it and then access it in HE. At least until the kkossev driver is finished. HA has a user HACS to make it work. I think I will order it from Amazon to play with it this weekend.
Yes, the BT scan shows HLK-2410*. There is an app "HLKRadarTool". This app has an "Engineering
Mode" which is in fact is not different from Normal Mode. The app allowed to set up number of
detection zones, detection zones spacing (0.2M or 075M), thresholds sensitivity for each
detection zone (stationary and moving) and unmanned duration. The detection time is 120S
and cannot be adjusted. I am not sure what this parameter is doing. There is also a settings
for the Light Sensor. Also app produces few graphs. I guess, these graphs may help to fine
tune thresholds once sensor will be installed in final location. Sensor is constantly reported a
calculated distance. I think, this is a reason why sensor is spammy on the Zigbee network.
I don't see how this distance reporting could be disabled (if this is possible).
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Yea, my Linptech device isn't showing the board in a bluetooth scan. Not seeing it with nRF Connect.
Keep in mind that when you connect to that board you are connecting to the board and not the zigbee device. How the baseboard interacts with the HLK-2410B is unknown. So if the baseboard is using GPIO you do not know what the logic is on the baseboard to then send any zigbee communication. If the baseboard is using rx/tx you have no idea what logic it is using.
What would be interesting is connecting over bluetooth and modifying some HLK settings and then resetting the baseboard. Then check again on the HLK and see if the reset also reset some defaults on the HLK.
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They're fake 24 GHz sensors by their vart nature when marketed as such. I would be furious if they cost more than $20 apiece. For 40 bucks I could have two sensors that are 5.8ghz . That is pretty spot on for 5.8 Tua sesnors. The pricing is correct. If they charged me FP1 or FP2 pricing I would be on a plane to China. J/k , but you get what I am saying. They are real sensors, just not real 24 GHz presence sensors. They are so wrong for their deception. I have way tp many Tuya 5.8 GHz sensors now. I wanted to move on to 24 GHz, or 60...or even 77 GHz presence. I am going to have to have a smart home yard sell to offload some 5.8s. LOL
Yes, the BT is a part of LD2410 chip itself and has nothing to do with Zigbee.
No, this is very well known Rx, Tx serial protocol (RS232).
All serial comands could be found on Home Assistant forums.
All settings are permanent and not affected by power cycling and/or resetting
LD2410 chip itself.
Not sure you got my meaning there. Sure, how to interact with the HLK is documented. What you do not know is how the baseboard interacts with the HLK with serial. It could do very little or it could do a lot. You could sniff the interaction or you could do a lot of testing where you set certain parameters in the HLK via zigbee and then checked over bluetooth if the value changed.
Back to your example of why one of these devices might be chatty... well it's only chatty if the baseboard code is meant to be chatty. If the baseboard didn't want to be chatty it doesn't have to react to all of the GPIO output from the HLK. It doesn't have the share the serial stream over Zigbee etc.
I do like that there are some of these zigbee devices that have active bluetooth on the HLK. I'm now very interested if the serial is compatible between the 2410 and the 2450 (at least a subset on the 2450 that aligns with the 2410). The idea that you could swap the HLK on a zigbee device and configure it over bluetooth seems plausible.
