I have a situation w/a ceiling fan in the living room where I really want to replace the current dumb switches in 3-way setup w/a smart switches, but don't think I should due to a potential safety issue.
A contractor wired up a celing fan w/light to the 3-way setup as a single device. Turning off either of the switches completely cuts power to the fan and light. So both the light and fan go off when the switch is off, both have power when it's on. I could get it re-wired but don't want to muck around in my attic, and don't think it's worth the $ to pay an electrician.
However, the setup is a PITA - if the fan light is on at night and one of the switches gets turned off to turn off the light, then the fan is completely dead. The next day when it's light indoors, one of us will grab the fan remote to turn on the fan, and it doesn't work because the fan has no power. So walk over to the switch on the wall, walk back to the couch and then use the remote to turn on the fan.
I'd like to have switches at the two locations that just turn the fan light off, but don't shut off the power to the fan and light. Then we can toggle the fan light on/off from the switch (most common use) but still be able to use the fan when the switch for the light is off.
I'm not sure how to do this, frankly. Whatever switch I wire up is going to turn the power to the fan/light on or off. It seems unsafe (and probably a code violation) to wire up the circuit at the boxes so the fan always has power, and replace the switches at each box w/Pico remotes.
Am I stuck w/the requirement to rewire the fan so that light and fan power are separated?
which fan is it? you mention a remote, i wonder if the Bond blaster could help. Then you could use switches, and maybe do a single tap for light and double tap for fan. then it can use the existing wiring to control while providing smart functionality
That all depends upon what wires are in what location...
It sounds like that you only have two wires going to the fan (hot and neutral) and the fan hot and light hot are tied together somewhere (fan canopy?).
I would be nice if you could sketch out the wires in each box or on each fan switch or take pictures and label them. Then we could know for sure what you could do.
But why not use the Inovelli fan canopy setup? Wouldn't that do what you want? You could even use a Pico or other button so you only had to buy a switch for one location.
I do have the Bond bridge and use it w/my fans, including the one in question.
However, and maybe I'm missing something, my understanding is that as soon as I wire in a smart switch to the circuit, tapping on or off on that switch will always turn that circuit on or off. I can assign additional automations to those taps, but can't keep from it turning the circuit on/off. Do I have that wrong?
Don't know what that is, I'll have to do some reading...
The main issue is that whatever I do needs to keep power to the fan available when the switches at the two existing locations are used. In the current setup, those switches entirely kill the fan, so if the Innovelli solution is something added just to the fan, it won't help.
The inovelli lzw36, can address the issues you have. I had the same issue with one of my fans in my house, and did not want to open drywall to run another wire. The inovelli fan switch works great and it also works in a three way setup.
For a three way setup I use a zwave association (communication does not go through the hub, so it is instant). If you want you can add scenes on the three way switch for fan control, or do it through the hub with any type of remote you want.
That's going to require that I can get separate wiring to the switch for the fan and light...not sure how that helps me, I would still have to rewire the fan, right? Am I missing something?
Can you give me a summary of how it works? Not sure how if it's wired up to full on/off for the entire fan, it can manage control of the fan/light separately, and allow control of the fan w/a Pico when the fan is off.
I'm feeling like the clueless guy at the moment...
Remove your existing switches that control power to your fan. Marrett the wires together so your fan always has power. Install the canopy module that comes with the switch. It is this canopy module that controls the light (dimmable) and fan (on/off and speed control).
Now install the lzw36 and 3 way switch wherever you want but close to the fan. The lzw36 will send commands to the canopy module to control light on/off, dimming, fan on/off, fan speed. This is done on a frequency that is close to the frequency used by Lutron. The switch also sends out a different zwave frequency to pair with your hub and viola the ability to control all aspects of your fan when you only have one wire to your fan.
If you want three way (or 4way) just zwave associate the switch with the lzw36.
Inovelli is the only company with this solution. Even Lutron does not have it.
The short version is that the split occurs inside the canopy portion of the LZW36. According to the link I posted above, if you pair the first LZW36 with another LZW36 at the other end and create an association the two switches essentially become one logical switch. Which in this case actually splits into 2 child devices, one for the light, and one for the fan.
Thanks, but that leaves me w/the wires feeding the fan in an always powered mode...I don't like that, makes me worried that I or more likely someone else lazy/thoughtless in the future will turn off the wall switch and open up the canopy/get into the wiring thinking power is off.
I just don't like the idea of a switch not doing what people expect it to do...worries me.
Then you are out of luck. In Canada you would be in compliance with the electrical code.
Having always on power at the light fixture, regardless of the position of your wall switch is very common. If your house is older than 15 years, you could find that condition in many of your existing fixtures.
If you do not understand how a light or fan with a switch could be wired in this fashion, it might be best to get a qualified electrician to do any work. Wiring explanations that are clear to the writer on a forum do not always translate as expected. lol
You could leave the dumb physical switch, and put a guard over it so it cannot get accidentally turned off. You would only have to do this at the end where the power feeds the canopy, depending upon how your house was wired.
Then mount the new smart switch (really a hard wire button controller) wherever you want, or put in a larger box. The smart switch doesn't have to be on the same circuit even. So it theoretically can go anywhere you have power in a box.
Thanks for confirming that, and all the time spent beating into my head how it works.
I have a house built in 1969...I've replaced every single switch in the house twice, first time with dumb switches w/out any re-wiring, and I've never had power at any light a switch was connected to when the switch was off. So either I'm lucky, or maybe code here in CA didn't allow that? I've frankly never heard of that configuration, and am very surprised it's allowed. But I'm a basic home electrician, only have experience in my house.
