Rule Machine 4 Ui is a disaster

Takes a little adjusting but gets the job done, fine as is with me

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well as a coder, the interface is pretty much what it needs to be to cut down on allowing you to enter illegal code.. The only alternative would be a full text parser and allowing you to enter the code directly which would be very complex and probably beyond the horsepower of the hub.. If you don't like it try webcore and see if you like that better..

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I must admit it can appear to be a bit 'unwieldy' at times but once you get your head round where things are in the options etc. I don't find it that much of a 'Click Disaster'.

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Only had my HE for couple of weeks. RM had a bit of a learning curve for me and I initially overcomplicated my rules. I think doing this allowed me get very familiar with the UI. Now I have no problems with it at all. It is the only app I use for all my lighting, motion and button rules. All work really well and is very fast. Don't want a change and have to learn it all over. Perfect as it is, for me. I love it.

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It took some getting used to but actually find it quite methodical now.

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You could always use webCoRE as your automation engine. Thanks to @nh.schottfam's hard work, webCoRE runs on Hubitat.

And, while Stringify is no more, @fblackburn has created a set of Hubitat nodes for Node-RED. There are several long threads on the Hubitat community describing automation sequences for Node-RED, including contributions from a few people who have responded to your post.

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You should consider trying out [RELEASE] Event Engine - Automate your world with easy to use Cogs. Rev up complex automations with just a few clicks!

Might be your cup of tea!

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I don't mean any disrespect, but we're paying customers. If RM was something we were given for free then I'd agree with you. However, that's not the case. We paid for it (and remember, RM is one of the big things HE advertises so many paid specifically for this feature!). So yeah, people should very much feel allowed to voice their frustration and I don't think they have to make sure their wording doesn't offend anyone. That is, in my opinion, our rights as paying customers -- the right to voice when we're dissatisfied with a product.

Personally, I don't use RM at all because I found it too slow and clunky. I had rules "break" (give errors and not load) too often and it just wasn't efficient for me. At first it seemed cool, but after a while, I realized it doesn't meet my needs.

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Although @dman2306 has a point the newer users don't know that RM today is a HUUUGE improvement over what it was previously.

For example in the past if you removed a device you'd get left with a phantom condition that you couldn't get rid off and had to redo the entire rule (it didn't affect operation but was just a visual stump).

Sure it could be better UI wise but I'm actually fine with how it works currently.

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No question, it's way better than it was a year ago. Like some others mentioned though, they're now hitting a wall with what the UI framework allows. Looking at HE, I think it's fair to say, they don't have a UI/UX expert and as a developer, I can say terrific developers often make horrible UI/UX decisions!

Also fortunately for many of us @fblackburn's node-red nodes have been (dare I say it) a godsend to opening up an alternative programming route for us average users. So far my more complex programming is done via NR.

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Yeah, wouldn't recommend this hub for anyone with custom rules that isnt a DIY with some basic code knowledge. But it suits my needs, at least 75% of needs which is better than the alternatives.

I have never learned to code anything in my life.

Rule machine can be clunky, but I had a hard time with webcore too.

And I don’t think that paying for a product or service gives one the right to be disrespectful.

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Well, that's your opinion, and that's ok. I'm more of the opinion that while people certainly have the "right" to be nasty or inconsiderate, they certainly shouldn't want to be or strive to be.

So, when someone takes an overtly disrespectful and non-constructive tone of someone else's hard work I have no issue calling them out on it.

If they really think that belittling and being an *** about someone's work is going to encourage them to enter into meaningful discourse to improve it... Well, they will likely be disappointed.

If they actually cared about giving feedback or discussing improvements, they wouldn't start the discussion with "[this] is a disaster".

Constructive feedback is always welcome. Non-constructive feedback is really just bitching and moaning, and not especially useful in the end.

Just my opinion.

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Guess I didn’t realize “click disaster” was such an offensive statement (I think it’s an accurate description. Buttons all over the place, confusing drop downs, weird labels. It is a click disaster!). Other than that all he did was reference two systems he thought were better designed (constructive feedback imo).

I guess years of working in software and customer service have given me thick skin! I once had someone tell me my software was so horrible that he looked forward to having a week long fit of explosive diarrhea because that would be more fun than using my software for another minute. I mailed him a bottle of pepto bismol with a note saying “hope this helps, when you feel better let’s chat about how to make the software better meet your needs.” He became a great customer of ours. What I’ve learned is, customers will be rude and they have a right to be upset. Instead of getting mad at customers for being upset, hear their concerns, and listen. Something every one of the hundreds of people who’ve worked for me have heard me say “90% of unhappy customers give you no feedback. They just leave and take their money elsewhere. The 10% that give you feedback WANT it to work out and WANT our product to be better. Regardless of how they convey their feedback, listen. The other 90% thought the same thing, they just never spoke up.”

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Fair enough. And I'm not the God of the Forum, so I'll let it rest. I'm not the developer in question so my opinion doesn't matter in the end. Whether I think the tone was out of line or not is irrelevant.

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I just want copy/paste. That would help building complex rules with custom actions that take many clicks to set up.

And longer term, yes a shiny new graphical interface like Stringify would be great.

In the meantime I'm using Node-RED which along with its graphical benefits also provides performance benefits and de-risks your IoT solution at least to some extent.

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I must say that having come from maybe 7 years of Vera, RM is pretty awesome. Vera has some valiant user-contributed rule systems (having no builtin functionality of that kind) but I've been finding RM easier to understand after a reasonable learning curve. I do certainly notice some of the UI clunkiness at times but I get that is down to the framework, and how it might not be a top priority to change.

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Having used four different home automation platforms over the past 15+ years, I've come to the conclusion that most programmers/code writers aren't going to produce a UI that is intuitive for those who don't spend a significant portion of their time writing code. It's not that the code writers are lazy, or that the typical user is stupid. IMO, it's just that their brains are working differently, and are focused on different things. That said, I think this gap is a big reason HA has never really "taken off" with the general public. It's just too hard for many people to figure out.

The overall UI of Hubitat is much better than many other systems, and that's a big reason I've migrated here from the ISY. But could some additional attention to things like RM improve things even more? Yep. Would I pay to have a better/easier RM? Yep.

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I haven’t a clue what in my post offended any religion?

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