My experience with mmWave sensors

💬 Lounge
1

A month+ ago I finally got two Aquara FP2 sensors.
No matter how hard I tried to get them working I did not succeed.
The sensors were working (integrated with HE by Home Assistance + Home Kit Controller + HADB)
but never produced a trusted reliable presence detection and therefore absolutely cannot be
used in automations. Now they are going to the spare toys drawer.

Next I tried one nice looking (oval blue like cat eye) Tuya Presence Sensor. This one did not
pair with C8. It did paired with C7 but for some reason was randomly changing all settings on
its own (I am/was using very nice 4-in-1 HE Driver designed and maintained by @kkossev).
So, this toy went directly to the trash.

Finally I found also from Tuya flat white square Zigbee version sensor. The signature is:
image

I ordered first one from BestBuy but it was shipped from Temu.
This one refused to pair directly with C8 but C7 had/has no pairing problem and sensor
(after fine tuning a location and all parameters) is producing very reliable presence detection.
This one went into Bathroom and replaced 3 previously used MS sensors.

Bathroom_Presence
Bathroom_Presence1920×2560 634 KB

Sensor is barely visible white square box few inches above power outlet.

Since I had very nice experience I ordered 2 more directly from Temu. These 2 came with
the same device signature but instead of USB-C connector they have Micro USB connectors
(not a big deal, they are working the same).

Installation in the Kitchen took me a lot of effort first - to find a right place and then to fine
tune all settings (it was many iterations before everything started to work as expected).
These mmWave sensors could se through the wall and behind them as well.
First location was to replace the existing MS in the conner:

Kitchen_MS
Kitchen_MS1920×2560 261 KB

This location was very good for the MS but absolutely terrible for the mmWave sensor.
Here is a view from the Living Room into Kitchen area:
Kitchen_View
Kitchen_View1920×2560 518 KB

The MS location was in the upper right corner in the Kitchen area on a wall between kitchen
and Living Room. In this location mmWave sensor was seeing every motion/presence in a
good part of Living Room including Dining Table area even with lowest sensitivity settings.
So I moved the sensor around and tried different locations. To filter out the ability to see through
the wall was a big challenge for finding a right place. Sensor ended up under the counter.
and i had to put some metal (copper film) behind the sensor:
Kitchen_Presence
Kitchen_Presence1920×2560 423 KB

Finally I fine tuned all settings in the driver and got it working as it was expected.

MS in the Kitchen was working fine for 4+ years. The reason for the MS replacement with
mmWave is faster response time and significantly less waiting time (1min vs 5min) for inactivity.

5 Likes
2

As an alternate perspective, I have 3 Aqara FP1 presence sensors and they are integrated with HE and work perfectly, and I love them. I'm using the community provided Aqara device driver. They give me a presence detection that traditional PIR motion sensors simply can't do. My only gripe is they are resource hogs so I had to fiddle with them to prevent them from bringing my zwave mesh to a grinding halt.

2 Likes
3

My new favorite combo is an ESP32 S2 Mini with the LD2410C mmWave sensor. They are super fast and extremely configurable with Bluetooth directly to the LD2410C chip. They also have the added benefit of costing about $8 to make if ordered from AliExpress.

2 Likes
4

How are you setting these up? Got a link or reference?

5

Are you using ESPHome project:

or something else?

6

Here's a little detail along with the 3D printed case I designed.
https://www.printables.com/model/541368-case-for-esp32-s2-mini-and-ld2410c

This SCREEK group is selling them on eBay, but also opted to offer the firmware as open source so you can also DIY using their firmware.

  1. Buy the pieces and assemble.
  2. Use ESPHome to write the firmware initially: https://github.com/screekworkshop/screek-human-sensor/tree/main/1u/yaml (it has an OTA option from the UI after the fact).
  3. After flashing, follow these instructions to get it setup:
    Getting Start - SCREEK WORKSHOP
  4. The ESP integration should auto pick it up. If not, you just add it by IP address.

Here's the overall thread:

2 Likes
7

Thank you for the info.
As of now I am very happy with 3 Tuya Sensors I already bought (2 already installed and
functional). But I am OK with DIY projects and will keep in mind this option.
BTW, LD2410C sensors are available from Amazon US ($20 for pair).
And just in case I just ordered a pair.

8

Those are pretty decent. I've had two for a while and my observations are:

  1. Super fast
  2. REALLY chatty (could cause Zigbee mesh issues depending on what else you've got)
  3. Do lose tracking if you sit still.
  4. Will detect through walls.

I'm not saying any of these are necessarily a pro/con. Just observations. I had to mount both mine above doors because the radar does apparently have sidelobes that extend out the rear (but are pretty narrow). Of course, both my use cases have the backside pointed at hallways so they were picking up people just walking by the room; not in the room.

You'll also want the ESP board unless you have BLE already setup in HA.

9

My observation and/or experience with Tuya sensors is a bit different.

Yes, they are very fast.

No, all my 3 toys are quite enough. But occasionally (every few min) they are sending
unnecessary messages. That is why I created a Virtual MS for each one and this Virtual MS
is actually linked with main C8 via Hub Mesh.

Not in my case. They are tracking "sit still" person very well. And this is/was a whole reason
why I replaced MS with mmWave (specifically in a bathroom). This way I was able to reduce
"inactivity waiting time' from 5min down to 1min (and can go even lower but 1min seems
to be very reasonable timeout).

Yes, this was a challenge for the Kitchen setup. Copper foil behind the mmWave sensor
did a trick and fixed a problem but it must be at least 5x size of the sensor.

I still have few ESP32 boards and sure can order more.
I am using them for the Hubduino and ESPHome DIY projects.

2 Likes
10

Yeah...see...I'm a lot more aggressive. I have mine set to 5 seconds (for now), but probably need to bump that up just a bit.

11

Actually fadingTime for the Sensor itself is set to 15sec. The related RM rule timeout is 1min
(was 5min for the MS).

12

I'm getting the ones from screek, but are you saying they work with hubitat just fine?

13

SCREEK device is WiFi, you need to have Home Assistant running, and then you should be able to bring it to Hubitat using the HADB.

1 Like
14

Got it, thank you.
I have not brought anything from HA into HE yet... so that should be exciting and fun.

15

Thanks for the detailed post and pics, @vitaliy_kh! The mmWave sensors are very interesting and new (to me) toys, and they have also solved a couple difficult motion/presence sensing issues in my home.

I'm using the Linptech mmWave sensors. On Amazon they were $29.99 w/a $5 coupon for a while, but (at least the pricing I'm seeing) they have now moved to $39 w/a $10 coupon. Likely cheaper on Ali, but I haven't had the patience to wait for their longer shipping times. :slight_smile: They work directly w/HE thanks to @kkossev's excellent drivers.

I have found the Linptech to be accurate, reaonably fast, and completely reliable w/sensing both motion and still presence. The issues they solved for me were reliably sensing:

  • Wife's presence in office when she is sitting very still for extended periods of time. Even when she is in what I call it her "Sphinx Mode," the Linptech sensor keeps accurate track that she is still there and keeps the light on.
  • Presence in shower through glass walls/door w/towel hanging over door. Wife didn't want any sensors in/above the shower, so the Linptech mmWave was the solution. Sensor is mounted about 5 1/2' away, and accurately tracks if someone is in the shower even when we're sitting down on the bench in the shower. Haven't tried it in steam shower mode yet, but expect that will also work well.

In both cases I combine an Iris v2 motion sensor w/the Linptech in my Room Lighting automations for quicker initial reaction/lights on. The Linptech isn't exactly slow, but the Iris are noticably faster (always been one of the fastest motion sensors). Topic focused on the Linptech here.

Shout out to @kkossev who has been an incredible resource in general for mmWave sensor drivers, sharing general information, identifying which ones would work best w/HE, etc., and to @vitaliy_kh and others like @JumpJump and @gassgs who have contributed excellent feedback, and in @gassgs's case, also work on the dedicated Linptech driver.

3 Likes
16

Would you confirm if you got this working with a C8 and what driver you used? Thank you.

17

Yes, I have three of them I'm using w/this one here that @gassgs created. Raw code is here:

https://raw.githubusercontent.com/Gassgs/Hubitat-Apps-and-Drivers/master/Drivers/Linptech%2024Ghz%20Presence%20Sensor%20ES1.groovy

You can also use the driver in @kkossev's 4 in 1 sensor thread here:

Either will work fine.

18

Great, thank you so much for the quick response.

1 Like
19

You'll need to tune your motion sensing settings in the driver to fit your environment, and there is an issue where ceiling fans can keep the sensor active. Have fun. Lots of info on the Linptech/Moes sensor here: