Is there any update on Life360 or other presence sensing?

[tpaairman]

I know that Life360 had changed things up and this was the root of the issue with them, and that the "built in" part of using your phone as a presence sensor is not reliable. Is there any possible update on any of this in the works?

It seems like there has to be some way to make this work. But, what I'm noticing is, when I arrive home, I have to have the Hubitat app opened up, and my phone connected to my wifi. But, what's odd is I've had several times recently where I'll be sitting at home, or even last night, I was in bed, with my phone charging next to me, and suddenly the lights come on in parts of the house. What that is, is the rule I have for when I arrive home, and it turns on certain lights.

Looking at the logs for my phone in Hubitat, it showed my phone left, then came back 2 seconds later. My wifi can drop out now and then, thank you Spectrum, but I've had lots of time that I'm using my computer, and suddenly lose internet for a few seconds or a minute, but Hubitat doesn't show my phone as leaving. So, I'm not sure what dots are connected here.

[marktheknife]

Life360 doesn’t want their service to be accessible to outside services like Hubitat. Not much Hubitat can do about that.

Your best bet is to use a different solution for mobile presence/geolocation.

[tray_e]

For increasing reliability of the built in app, you can go to settings, advanced, and verify you have a delay set. That will prevent momentary changes like the one for 2 seconds that you describe.

The other thing is to make sure you have ALL power saving options disabled for hubitat. You did not mention whether you were IOS or Android. I am android.

Settings -> Device Care -> Battery -> Background Usage Limits -> Put unused apps to sleep is off.
In addition I added the below to Never Sleeping Apps (They have been since I got the phone)
-Hubitat
-Google play Services

Settings -> Device Care -> Battery -> More Battery Settings -> Adaptive Battery is off

In Settings -> Device Care -> Memory under Excluded apps, I have Hubitat and Google Play Services there as well.

In Settings -> Device Care -> 3 Dot Menu - > Automation, I have Auto Optimize Daily turned off (as well as all other options on this menu)

In Settings -> Apps -> Hubitat -> Battery, it is set to unrestricted. I also have no Permissions denied, Location at always, physical activity and camera while using app.

In Settings -> Apps -> Google Play Services -> Battery, it is set to unrestricted. Location all the time and also no permissions denied.

I went through each of these settings and toggled them off then back on trying to fix it. I also force stopped the app (hubitat), cleared cache, and restarted it.

For Geofence settings (in Settings->Advanced on the hubitat app) on both phones,
-Send presence only in motion is off.
-Validate location on network change is on
-Delay Exit is on: 2 minutes

Also in android, there is a way to keep the app opened.
Open the hubitat app, then go back to the home screen.
Open the recents, and scroll to the instance of hubitat on the task changer. Tap the icon for the app in the top of the screen. In the drop down, select "keep open". You will see a lock on the bottom corner of the app in the changer now. That leaves the app running in the background.

Lastly, (again only for android), I use tasker to toggle presence on a virtual presence indicator as a backup. That virtual presence is
from the "combined presence" app available in the Hubitat Package Manager.

All of the above has my presence at about a 99% accuracy. The only time I get failures now is when my phone gets too close to a magnet and scrambles the compass settings.

If you use a magnetic mount or case with a magnetic closure, your compass will keep decalibrating and causing all kinds of issues with location settings. There is an app on the play store called GPS status that will show you the status of your compass calibration. If it is red or yellow, you can recalibrate it back to green. Almost every single time my presence went haywire, it was because my compass calibration was red. Also, if you pull up the calibration, and it is green, you can put it close to a magnet and see how that trashes the calibration in seconds (I did a video of that, but not sure how to attach videos to a comment)

GPS Status

[tpaairman]

@marktheknife

Life360 doesn’t want their service to be accessible to outside services like Hubitat. Not much Hubitat can do about that.

Your best bet is to use a different solution for mobile presence/geolocation.

I can fully understand that on the part of Life 360, except they had been letting it happen before, but so be it. But, other than the built in presence sensor in Hubitat, what else would I be able to use? I am going to look to see if I can set something up in my phone, but I have an iPhone, which Apple isn't very friendly to things that compete with Home Kit.

[tpaairman]

@tray_e

You did not mention whether you were IOS or Android. I am android.

I guess that would be useful info. It's IOS. I'll run down the list you have and see if maybe my phone can trigger the Hubitat app somehow, instead of Hubitat looking where my phone is.

[tray_e]

I have heard that Geofency works well on IOS. No personal experience with it though.

[marktheknife]

@tpaairman

except they had been letting it happen before

Apparently the company's position on allowing external access to their APIs changed several months ago. Not much anyone (except Life360) can do about it.

@tpaairman

But, other than the built in presence sensor in Hubitat, what else would I be able to use?

There are at least a few options for iOS that have been discussed in other threads recently. @tray_e mentioned Geofency. There's also Locative and OwnTracks. The Apple Home app can also work for this purpose if you use the right kind of virtual sensor (it has to be a combined switch/presence sensor) and if you have a device that Apple considers to be a "Home hub" that's always on at home, such as a HomePod or HomePod Mini.

If you do a forum search for some of the relevant keywords, and sort the results by date, you should be able to find some other threads that discuss the options in more detail.

[danabw]

I'd recommend this - supports iOS and Android. Very active, friendly developer, who has made adjustments in an effort to make this an effective replacement for Life360.

[RELEASE] OwnTracks for Hubitat Presence Detection

I was looking for a fall back solution as Life360 was slowly deprecating the features I used, and wanted OwnTracks to work "similar" to Life360 while adding in central management. You can change regions in this app, as well as location and display settings which will get pushed to each device the next time they report a location. This integration was full tested around the Android mobile app, but should have no issues with the iOS variant. If you like this integration, feel free to Buy me a C…

[ritchierich]

@marktheknife

The Apple Home app can also work for this purpose if you use the right kind of virtual sensor (it has to be a combined switch/presence sensor) and if you have a device that Apple considers to be a "Home hub" that's always on at home, such as a HomePod or HomePod Mini.

I’d add Apple TV to the device list so if you have one you can leverage HomeKit for presence. @csteele provides a good set of instructions on how to set this up:

Homekit presence status?

Step 1) you must have a HomeKit Hub. That is an Apple TV or Apple HomePod. Without this, Automations can't be created. Step 2) In Hubitat, create a Virtual Device, choose the Virtual Presence with Switch type in the drop down and name it something useful. Step 3) select the new device in Homekit Integration (it will be in the Switch list.) Step 4) The remaining steps are all done on your Apple mobile device. In Apple's Home App, at the bottom center is Automation. You will create TWO automa…

[steve.maddigan]

Blatantly advertising my write up.

Locative Presence app for iOS full setup

Locative is a great app for presence sensing but is only available for iPhones. I previously used Life360 free version for over a year without any issues. I noticed that it would typically consume about 1% of my iPhone battery per day. I was not concerned with the privacy issues of being tracked. About a year and a half ago I saw a post by @ogiewon mentioning Locative. The cool thing about Locative - your phone decides when it is inside or outside your defined locations and only when your pho…

[marktheknife]

@ritchierich

I’d add Apple TV to the device list so if you have one you can leverage HomeKit for presence.

Ah that’s right, I knew I was forgetting one but couldn’t think of it.

[steve.maddigan]

@ritchierich

I’d add Apple TV to the device list so if you have one you can leverage HomeKit for presence.

Or just a HomePod mini

[lcw731]

@tray_e

I have heard that Geofency works well on IOS. No personal experience with it though.

Geofency has been working flawlessly for me since I started using it. It has the added benefit of logging your time at other locations. On at least a few occasions this has come in quite useful for me.

[ritchierich]

@steve.maddigan

Or just a HomePod mini

@marktheknife had already mentioned it, I was just adding Apple TV to his list.

@marktheknife

device that Apple considers to be a "Home hub" that's always on at home, such as a HomePod or HomePod Mini

[sburke781]

An Android phone is another option...

[steve.maddigan]

@ritchierich

had already mentioned it, I was just adding Apple TV to his list.

i really need to slow down and read completely.

[danabw]

@steve.maddigan

slow down and read completely.

Why would you want to be different from all the rest of us?

[lcw731]

@tpaairman

I can fully understand that on the part of Life 360, except they had been letting it happen before

Life360, like IFTT got way too greedy. They made a couple of acquisitions a few years ago and started the paid subscription model, but they put everything behind a pay wall, and it just isn't worth the cost. I honestly don't care about life360 sensing an accident and calling for help. My phone natively does that anyway. Nor do I care about Identify Theft insurance, half of the services I use offer it. But why not let me have more than five places? Or more access to detailed driving reports would also be a larger benefit. On an even more basic level, I would frequently find it to be several minutes behind me, so any automation based on arrival or departure wouldn't fire off at the correct time.

There just isnt enough value in it to justify keeping Life 360. There are many other, more private alternatives.