Hue Outdoor PIR motion avail Feb 2019


#61

Newbie here that is migrating from ST.... its crazy/amazing that I bought the hue outdoor motion sensor (HOMS) a week ago and got it running on my front door and triggering lights etc and boom it was way too sensitive. So I have been "dragging my feet" on what to do, return it or buy the bridge or live with false positives.

The crazy/amazing part is this thread. It looks like this is the answer so thanks to @mike.maxwell for his efforts.

A couple of questions, what is the protocol for obtaining this driver? I am assuming its a custom driver we will have to get from github and install ourselves? I keep waiting for someone to ask this so I am assuming everyone knows what, where and when to expect it? 2nd question I see HUE has released a firmware update on the HOMS, should I update to this? actually can I update if I dont own the hub? I know that this is probably a question for a HUE support forum. TIA for any answers.


#62

Welcome to Hubitat.

Mike Maxwell is Hubitat's driver creator/magician staff member The drivers he creates are pushed out in the upcoming firmware updates.


#63

To get the Hue Firmware update you would need to connect to a Hue hub, then pair back with your HE hub afterwards.

As you may have seen the 2.1.0 update has now been released with the settings to lower sensitivity.


#64

Honestly as far as firmware updates go for the outdoor sensor, the release notes aren't detailed enough to for me to make any sort of recommendations as to the need of it.
I updated one sensor, and have three others which are more than likely on the older firmware, and I'm not noticing any difference in Lux reporting between them...


#65

Lowering the sensitivity so far has appeared to help dramatically with the false (sunlight induced) motion active events for me. So glad you updated the driver... Thanks!


#66

@mike.maxwell Do the "indoor" versions of the motion sensor have any features besides motion? (Lux, temp, etc.)?


#67

Yeah, same features as the outdoor sensor.


#68

Might someone have an idea on how I can use RM to change the "Motion Sensitivity" based on level of illuminance? For example, I have a few hue outdoor motions that I have set to low sensitivity because they have a tendency to see false motion due to sun glare. However, that only happens at certain times, particularly when they see the most sun. So how could I go about setting up a rule to change it to low sensitivity when its very bright, to low-medium or medium when its overcast, all the way to high when its dark out? Even if I could only do this based on sunset or sunrise times, it would improve motion detection in those locations, particularly for when I need it more - at night. That being said, after the update @mike.maxwell did to the driver, it is much better even without automating sensitivity changing, so thanks for that.


#69

Would I be able to set the sensitivity using the Maker API app under a rule based on current illumination or time? How would I figure out the command to send, I don't see it as a capability under Maker API, just as a setting under the driver. I see the difference from the debug log of changing the setting from low to medium:
low:
(Ideletedinfohere)2000, dni: BB0F, endpoint: 02, cluster: 0406, size: 0A, attrId: 0030, encoding: 20, command: 01, value: 00
[raw:catchall: (Ideletedinfohere) 7100, profileId:0000, clusterId:8021, clusterInt:32801, sourceEndpoint:00, destinationEndpoint:00, options:0040, messageType:00, dni:BB0F, isClusterSpecific:false, isManufacturerSpecific:false, manufacturerId:0000, command:00, direction:00, data:[71, 00]]
medium:
(Ideletedinfohere)2002, dni: BB0F, endpoint: 02, cluster: 0406, size: 0A, attrId: 0030, encoding: 20, command: 01, value: 02
[raw:catchall: (Ideletedinfohere) A500, profileId:0000, clusterId:8021, clusterInt:32801, sourceEndpoint:00, destinationEndpoint:00, options:0040, messageType:00, dni:BB0F, isClusterSpecific:false, isManufacturerSpecific:false, manufacturerId:0000, command:00, direction:00, data:[A5, 00]]


#70

@mike.maxwell Thanks for implimenting the motion sensitivity in the Hue Outdoor Motion driver. It has made a huge difference in the alerts I receive when someone is at the door.

I used the motion to send a pushover notification that tasker intercepts and pulls up the camera on my phone. I VPN when offsite so the camera is not exposed directly.


#71

FYI, for those looking for a cheap outdoor sensor option, here's what I do. I just buy cheap indoor sensors, cover the window with masking tape, and spray them with plastidip. Never had one fail, and one was exposed to the elements for 5+ years.

Iris v2 motions are cheap on eBay. I haven't tried it with those yet, but I don't see why it wouldn't work.


#72

Got a picture?


#73

Not now. I sold the house I did that on. And I haven’t done it here yet. I will though, my 20 pack of ebay sensors arrived. :blush:


#74

I have one of these mounted over my garage door facing the street, and I seem to get a LOT of false positives for reflected sunlight and sometimes cars just passing by. The sensor is approximately 9 feet off the ground and about 50 feet from the road. I have the motion sensitivity set to the lowest value, and the lux reporting set to 500 lux, and I'm still getting false reports. I've considered mounting it so the "top" of the beam isn't pointing straight out from the garage, but at an down-tile angle in the hopes it will help reduce the false triggers. I've also just invested in a Hue hub to investigate any firmware updates that might help. Any suggestions for how others have worked to prevent false positives? How does this sensor compare to the similar Zooz ZSE29 outdoor sensor?


#75

Hi, welcome to the forum. I am sorry for the long post. I have been meaning to post this information about PIR sensor. This is the best I can do based on what my journey finding an outdoor PIR sensor. I learnt a lot. I hope what I can share is useful for everyone here.

The way PIR sensor work is by sensing heat changes across the sensor. With the help of the lens in front of it, the changes, in a way, is amplified. The sensor basically generate compounding Sine Wave. Most PIR sensor will use band pass filter (passing sine wave from x to y Hz). This is the range that they think a human make.

So, what is the problem in regard to sun. Sun movement due to cloud/shadow may also look like a human movement in addition to the sun light reflected on the car moving. If the car move at highway speed, I bet the shadow will not trigger the detection.

I think the lux information is only useful to determine if there is a movement at low lux value (at night or Seattle cloudy day), then it is considered reliable. At high lux value, I do not think that you can reliably say that it is from a human. I believe this is the extend of the value of the detected lux. I do not think adjusting the sensitivity will result in better detection. The band pass filter will pass the signal regardless the amplitude of the signal.

There is also possibility that Hue will do DCT (discrete cosine transform). By doing this, they could do much more analysis (perhaps AI) of the wave in the frequency domain. However, I doubt it. I do not think that you would get months of usage on battery if you do something like this let alone years. I do not design or tear-down Hue motion sensor. However, I doubt any battery power PIR sensor would do something like this at today's technology.

There is anecdote that by manipulating the lens, you can get better accuracy. However, the physic behind it is hard to believe. Making the lens less sensitive basically narrow the band filter range that manufacture intended for. This may actually cause the sensor less sensitive. I may suffer false negative.

My personal experience solving this problem is using 2 sensors (microwave and PIR). I bought Bosch Tritech motion sensor (they use those 2 in one box). A move has to be detected by the 2 sensor before it is sent. They have Zigbee and wired version. They are really cheap. I use it on my ST hub. This is usable sensor for me. It is not great. You cannot use it as is out of the box. You have to adjust it for the range you want. It is not easy to get it right. Later on, I also find that it eat battery quite a bit. It take 6 AA battery. On busy area, you get less than 3 months of use. They do advertise 6 years of use if I am not mistaken. I believe that DCS make wired version of this type of sensor. I also play around to replicate this technique with my own homemade sensor quite successfully.

You can also use 2 plain PIR pointing to different shadow on the same area. The concept is the same as above. However, I find it very difficult to look at the same area and hope your get different shade of sun. In reality, this is much harder to do than the theory.

Thanks
Iman


#76

Thanks for the post, those look great except for one thing - they are indoor only. I need something that works outdoors, and at present, the only options appear to be either the Hue or Zooz sensors. Hopefully something in this type will become available.


#77

I would see the Bosch Tritech line. I can't fully recommend it since I feel some pain using it too. But, it is what work for me for outdoor other than making your own.


#78

As I mentioned in an earlier post, you can take indoor sensors and use them outside. In fact, at my last house, all of my outdoor motion sensors were Bosch Tritech sensors with both PIR and microwave.

Set up the sensor. Put some blue masking tape over the PIR lens, and then spray the seams of the sensor and lens with clear Plastidip in the aerosol can. I ran these for 5+ years with no problems and they were still working when I sold the house 5 years ago. A year ago I was over at the house because the new owner was outside and I was visiting my old neighbors, they were still working... So that's like 9 years. Those were wired units though, so no battery replacement required. If you use a battery one, you'll probably have to peel off the plastidip and redo it when you replace the battery.

Outdoor motion sensors are a ripoff. Those wired Bosch sensors were like $15. An outdoor version was like $80-90.

I just bought 20 of the iris motion sensors on ebay. If I get some time in the next couple of days, I'll start a thread with pics of how to weatherproof them. It's super simple and works great.


#79

Thanks for the info. I was able to find a couple of the Bosch RFPR-ZB-MSL sensors new in sealed boxes on eBay for about $12 each, so I'm going to give those a shot since they are so cheap.
Are you just using the standard clear Plasti-dip? Not over the sensor lens, correct?


#80

Right. If you cover the sensor lens with it, it will not work right. However, you need to get it down in the corners of the lens where it contacts the case so water doesn't leak in there. You can do this 2 ways:

  1. Take it apart, remove the lens, put silicone on the case where the lens contacts it and reinsert the lens.
  2. Cover the lens with blue tape, and take a razor to cut it about 0.5 to 1mm in from the edge so the edge of the lens is exposed. You'll need to be careful removing the tape after it dries so it doesn't pull the plastidip away from the lens/case joint.