website & Cobra GitHub

I don't use any of your apps, for the record, but I am a creative person like yourself. ...a creative director, to be exact, and an animator. And thus I think I can see where you're coming from. Sometimes it seems like no matter how much we put into it, no matter how pure and thorough your motives are, there are people out there who only want to criticize and demand more, more, more, or worse yet, question your right to charge something (in my case .. Not release in open source in yours). Eventually, it can get to be too much and you just want to pick up your ball and go home. For me, it comes in the form of telling colleagues, "I'm about ready to outsource this project."
All I can offer is to say I feel you. Sucks when you're in it. Hope it passes soon for your sake. Even as a non-user, I support you wholly in this. :+1:

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I know this has been mentioned before, but I think the solution to these issues lies in an official Hubitat app store.

Code would be checked and approved by Hubitat, and the revenue split some way between Hubitat and the developer so that they both had some payback for their time involved.

I would certainly be happy to pay for an app knowing it had been checked and officially approved so it wouldn't need removing if I needed to get support's help on anything.

Having all apps together in one place would be easier for the user, developers wouldn't have to host anything and would get some reward for their work, and Hubitat would have an income stream too.

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This is just funny because I literally JUST read in another thread people complaining and not liking this because of being nickeled-and-dimed from HomeSeer with this EXACT SAME MODEL.

Here's a problem and difference I see between several platforms. When apps/plugins are paid for there's an expectation of support which is natural and the developers (most) try to support them as best as they can within limitations that most developers for Home Automation are doing it as side-jobs.

When apps/plugins are "free" there's still this self-entitled expectation of support but those users tend to actually be more needy and more aggressive about demands and feel entitled to make demands to the authors.

The ME ME FREE crowd tends to be larger in numbers as well which is noise and does nothing but cause a lot of frustration to developers and IF the developer has other PAID plugins they are working on supporting this other NOISE causes bad opinions that carry over to their other products. This all in causes a death cycle of lots of development effort all across the board and really kills any motivation to continue developing for a platform.


I didn't try homeseer, but as far as I can see it's very expensive in total. HE is imho very cheap. So I agree with @Geoff_T and are willing to pay for extra apps. Just like with other platforms I thinks a good way to do it is a yearly subscription for updates only. If someone wants a new feature it is a different story. I'm not into Groovy that far yet, but maybe it's possible (depending on the feature) to even make features like little child apps to extend everything. In that case you could again charge a little bit for the feature only.

I fail to see how the "Solution" here is not simply just to IGNORE those making the complaints. Pay them the same amount of value, that they are paying you which is zero?

If anything the BLOCK function of these forums should be adapted so that once you/or developers block a user, you/developers should from then on not see anymore posts from them. But, the current block feature isn't very good at that.


Andy, you have every right to be upset. These complainers seem like a bunch of big entitled cry babies.
It's your work and your code, and you can do with it what you wish.
I'm sure the people who appreciate all you've contributed would greatly outnumber the whiners, and I hope you find some comfort in that fact.

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The difference is those people are charging alot more in comparison of what we should be charging.

But perhaps this wouldn’t be a bad idea for Hubitat to take a small cut.

It’s just my thoughts. I think everyone’s time equates to a dollar amount.

I personally think he should charge. Plain and simple. This would weed out some of those people mentioned.

It would also allow developers to have a purpose if they are rewarded for their efforts and it would be easier to stomach some of the complaints.

My take, charge. I think it’s fair. Just don’t get greedy regarding price.

$15-$20 for premium apps
$5-$10 for small apps

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That is definitely a solution, and maybe even the best one.

Per year I presume? To be fair I would even pay double that.

Maybe add a FR for Hubitat to publish a public key and support "encrypted" apps and drivers that are restricted to run on a specific Hub UID.

That would let a 3rd party developer create custom apps & drivers and sell them without worrying about trivial piracy of the app/driver code. Then it becomes A LOT easier for developers to sell custom code.


One of the reasons I picked Hubitat was it was NOT a subscription model. I am probably showing my cheapness here, but I will not pay ongoing fees. I thought that openness and sharing was the idea of this community, maybe I was wrong?

You realize that after 5 years you might have paid $100 or more for one app with this paid model? What if you have dozens of apps like many of us, you would be thousands in the hole after a couple years. At that point, why not buy a more commercial hub like Homeseer? Heck maybe even a full blown "real" system for that money.

I am not completely opposed to a reasonable one-time fee, or a donation model, but frankly I don't see myself purchasing apps or drivers.

Out of curiosity, I was looking at RBoys apps (never used them), and I don't think I would have purchased any of those. I don't see the value there if I only wanted one of his apps and not multiples. I didn't see that I would have wanted more than one of these so I potentially would have paid $40 for one app. I also looked at Homeseer, and those are outrageously priced for what you get. It is hard to believe their apps are that much better than the community or built in apps from Hubitat, Samsung, or others.


No I wouldn't agree with a per year model. Some might but I really think most wouldn't. A reasonable cost per app/plugin makes good sense and is what keeps other platforms afloat. People are willing to pay for an app they want/need. However then we get into another scenario where the same users are willing to pay for an app/plugin but THEN are NOT willing to pay for upgrades/new featuers etc etc. I see this all the time with HomeSeer. They will pay for the initial release and then want more and more features and updates but then complain/whine at the mention of having to pay anything else.

In the end it really is a no-win scenario as you can't please everyone. The only thing that can be done is create a model and stick to it. I'm in favor of a cost model for apps/plugins as it will create better apps for the whole community. I'm in favor of paying for upgrades and features that I want because I have the choice to upgrade or not.

The larger problem for Hubitat apps is they are groovy... so the source is distributed. This is a huge problem for any kind of larger controlled market place type setup. Sure it's possible to bake them into the system and distribute like native apps or SharpTools but you can't do that for everything. It's a catch 22 of the system design.

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Isn't this the same funding model that Hubitat uses though? You pay a one-time fee, and I would bet 99% of those purchasing it did so with the assumptions that updates/new features would happen. Hubitat apparently has included in their development plan to use a portion of this one time fee to fund this development.

There is minimal complaints about Hubitat not providing updates fast enough, but if you venture over to say the Vera forum who uses the same type of funding model (with much higher priced hubs) you will see the complaints in mass about lack of updates/features.

Two different subjects. You are talking about the hub/software and I was talking about apps/plugins that are 3rd party.

However yes the same model should hold true for the hub/software as well. Hubitat has no income past initial sale which is not sustainable in the long run. HomeSeer does updates a lot but then major updates you have to pay for... of course those major updates don't happen often... going on 5 years since the last one. But HS makes 30% off each plugin sale from the 3rd party authors. This is also why some of the devs for HS charge what even I think is too much for their plugins. Yet the reality is that it takes skill and time to develop good plugins and people need compensation for their skill and time and when there is little or no compensation then quality is affected and so is interest/inclination to develop for that platform.

How one is Funded (literally the first 6 words of my comment)

Sorry, not a subscription a one time purchase.

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Thank you guys for the hood points. All in some way valid. Though the last couple of posts made me realize I made a mistake with my reaction in this topic being offtopic. So I would like to ask everybody with regards to "solutions" or arguments against them to post in the following topic instead of this one. How to support and maintain authors of custom code?
This way we can spare Andy this whole discussion.

Andy sorry you feel the need to remove your apps. I for one have been a user and average all has be controlling my heating for over a year now without fault.
You've done great work and been a massive part of the Hubitat community.
it's your choice! do what you want matey. Would be good to see you back doing your stuff soon.

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I want the names and emails of these people who are harassing you Andy.
I'll label them as having dirt on the Clinton's. They'll be gone in a day or less.