GE Dimmer Z-Wave Plus Question

I just got my Hubitat a few days ago and a few of the GE Dimmer Z-Wave Plus switches (14294) to try out. I plan on using the first switch in the kitchen to light up the others. I installed two switches to test this out and it works, but there is a 0 to 2-second delay on this.

I have been reading up on this thread and about instant status vs polling and am a bit confused. It looks like these new GE switches are not using polling, as I am using the Generic Z-Wave Smart Dimmer driver, but it isn't quite "instant". When I set the switch from Hubitat both lights turn on at the exact same time. I did load up a custom driver and log out what is getting sent by the switch.

'zw device: 03, command: 2603, payload: 2B ' parsed to [[name:switch, value:on, descriptionText:Kitchen - Over Cabinet Lighting was turned on], [name:level, value:43, descriptionText:Kitchen - Over Cabinet Lighting brightness set to 43, unit:%]]

But I'm new to Z-Wave and am not sure where I look up this command/payload.

So my question is do any dimmer switches actually report their status near instantly? Or do they all have this slight delay? Do I just have something set up incorrectly? I have seen the HomeSeer hs-wd200+ says it supports instant status.

Sorry if this is nitpicky or has been explained already, but I really want to understand what is going on before I buy a bunch of any particular switches. Thanks for any help.

Be careful of marketing hype vs reality. "Instant status" is just status that is sent back uninvited. :slight_smile: It's no more instant than Instant Hot Chocolate. It's just infinitely faster than no status at all, and beats polling. :smiley:

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If I recall correctly, some dimmers will only report their physical status update after reaching their final dim level. If you watch the Device Details page of the dimmer you are physically turning on and off, do you see the 'switch' status change from 'off' to 'on' instantly, or only after the bulb has reach the dim level the switch was last at when turned off? Most dimmer switches turn on softly. Whereas switches turn on/off instantly.

Pehaps this could be what you're seeing?

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It's possible this will be a non-issue soon, but whether or not existing owners are going to be able to take advantage of the improvements is unclear at this time.

@ogiewon - I thought of that, but the timing seems to be inconsistent. But maybe the starting dimming levels were different? I will double check tonight.

@SmartHomePrimer - Great link. Based on this it sounds like the newer switches should support instant reporting? Also, looks like they are on sale for $30!

It's a bit disappointing if "instant status" isn't really instant. I wasn't sure if other switches do better? But I agree, it's much much better than polling and would be good enough if this is the state of things.

I think it's true to say... when a device, that supports Instant Status, Lifeline Association or Central Scene, has a status to report, it begins the process of reporting that "instantly". However, like every device on the network, it's contending for resources. If the ZWave mesh is full of other traffic, the device must wait it's turn. We see situations where the Hub itself (as just another device among many) can take 5+ seconds to get it's turn.

At an imaginary location that was 100% ZWave+ I'd expect to see the hub receive and respond to whatever form of automatic status in under a second, making it "nearly instant" in the human perception range. :smiley: My house is not that place :frowning:

@csteele - fair. Right now I have the hub and 2 Z-Wave switches. Let's just say thing aren't going to get less congested if my budget allows it :slight_smile:

I'm a little surprised because going the other way, issuing a command from HE, has always been instantaneous. So the fact there is a delay (almost) always going the other way makes me think it's the switch, not the network.

I did reply to the reddit post from @SmartHomePrimer and the Jasco vendor claims any switch bought in 2018 should have the new firmware with instant status. I will double check my switches tonight.

I think Iโ€™d want to know what revision or lot number to look for. No telling how long one of those have been sitting in a sellerโ€™s warehouse.

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We also don't know how quickly Jasco will react. The original report might well have been a report of intention or plan. i.e.:

  1. ".......now that the Lutron patent is up we could make a change to include instant status......" We should start thinking about doing this.

  2. ".... we've always known when the patent would be up so we've planned ahead to incorporate this feature immediately...."

Having worked in large corporations, I would expect #1.

From a business standpoint I don't see them updating old product until well after the new product with instant status has been on the marked enough that those who really want IS had a chance to purchase new (replacement) product.

Sorry for the dark take on corporate decisions but such has been my observations.

John

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They claim that any switch made in the last year already has the updated firmware instant status already working. So hopefully that is true.

As far as providing a firmware update for older switches...

GE switch 14291 supports physical (un provoked status reporting) using Generic Z-Wave Smart Switch.
Same for dimmer model 14294 using Generic Generic Z-Wave Smart Dimmer
Both of these devices were purchased within the past year and are supported using the above drivers.

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Thank you for the confirmation. I think unprovoked status reporting might be a better term for this feature.

Is it possible to set the GE Plus dimmer level prior to the switch being turned on so that the light does not turn on at a higher level and then dim down to the desired level?

I created a rule to turn one of these dimmers on at 5%, but when the dimmer switch is turned on it ramps up before dimming down to the desired level.

And speaking of desired level, does anyone know the minimum that this dimmer will set to? It seems like it does not turn on as low as I am setting it to.

The min dimmer level to turn on is almost completely dependent on the bulbs you are using. On my GE dimmers I have some bulbs that will turn on @ 2%, and some that won't turn on <10% (and then can be dimmed to <10% after turning on).

You can prove this by putting some incandescent bulbs in a fixture - you will see that at 1%-2% turn on brightness the bulbs ARE getting electricity.

It is just that some LED and fluorescent bulbs have a minimum turn on power that is greater than the power provided at very low dimmer levels.

This is in the nature of how the dimmer work when using the physical paddle. Only way around this that I know of is to pre-set the dimmer to your desired level, so that when you physically press the button it returns to that 5% level it was already set to. For instance, when I go to bed I pre-set a couple of lights to 5% by issuing a set level command, then 1 second later turning the light off. Then if I physically turn the light on at night, it comes on to 5% instead of ramping to 100 then going to 5.

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