Debate about Hubitat's Approach to Ring

💬 Lounge Debate Chamber
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H O L Y C R A P
A person asks about an integration with Ring (Hubitat already has an integration with Amazon’s Alexa, which also owns Ring) and the thread is immediately filled with engineers, programmers, and aspiring engineers and programmers who dismiss the users question and proceed to tell them how what they’re asking is antithetical to the Hubitat manifesto that no one has seen, but these same people seem to think exists.

Hubitat’s Mission:

Empower consumers to elevate their environment with innovative, intuitive, reliable and private home automation technology that enriches and simplifies their lives. Our robust, open platform provides the flexibility and scalability to enhance other business automation applications in the future.

Tenet 3 of 3:

Home automation should be done locally, period, and here’s why:

  • Home automation should work even when the Internet is down.
  • Instantaneous response is non-negotiable; the cloud isn’t in the middle.
  • Your data should be kept securely at home, where it belongs.

NOWHERE does Hubitat say that cloud services are banned or tabu. In fact, the last sentence of the “Mission“ statement says that the platform is intended to “enhance other business automation applications in the future.”

“Other” - Not Hubitat
“Applications” - Well, unless the plan is to install business applications on the Elevation device itself (it’s not), that means...... a cloud connection.
Want proof that Hubitat is intended to work with cloud platforms? I give you Hubitat’s existing cloud integrations:

  1. Amazon Alexa (Echo App)
  2. Amazon Alexa (Echo Skill)
  3. Google Home
  4. Google Chromecast
  5. Rachio
  6. Ecobee
  7. Sharp Tools
  8. Philips Hue
  9. Lutron
  10. IFTT
  11. Life360

I count 11 (ELEVEN) separate cloud service integrations.
Hubitat IS about local execution. They are not big on cloud execution. Absolutely agree, 100%, but ELEVEN cloud integrations does not scream out “Anti-Cloud Prime Directive”
So, if cloud connections are clearly OK:

  • What about cloud notification (like a ring at the door from a Ring doorbell, Arlo doorbell, Google/Nest doorbell...)?
  • What about cloud video (like a Ring doorbell, or Ring security camera, or Arlo security camera)? Video is not execution.
  • What about Thermostats (like the current Ecobee or Honeywell, Google/Nest)?
  • Or vacuums (like iRobot Roomba or a half dozen others)?

Strategically, more integrations means more potential clients for Hubitat.
And more integrations DOES NOT mean data exposure for those that choose not to use the cloud services. It doesn’t even mean more data exposure for those that do. Programmatically, cloud services can be both integrated and walled off. Hubitat can choose what to share, and the customer can choose what to share. Imagine that!

All of this to say, The person asked a simple question about a simple service and the community came in like a cult and tried to convince that person that what they were asking was wrong, crazy, not in keeping with the Hubitat way... A way that, from Hubitat’s own Mission statement, IS NOT TRUE.
Folks, enjoy your product. Enjoy your way of using the product. Please don’t turn a simple question (that is valid, deserves an answer, and is an idea consistent with what Hubitat has done 11 times) into a crusade. Please don’t talk down to or demean the fellow user. This is a user community. This is a user support community. I don’t think it’s intended to be a cult.

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I think you might be overreacting and generalizing quite a bit. While the conversation did veer off topic by engineering discussions (happens all the time in communities of engineers and folks who try to work around constraints)...I hardly feel like there was a cult attack on the OP. There may have been ONE person who went back and forth with his opinion on how HE should prioritize the Ring integration.

The truth is, there is no public API, the company has new leadership that is in fact been showing a focus as of late to the Walled Garden approach. The partner program has been iffy at best. Because of these reasons, the small HE team "may" not feel it is wise to invest their limited resources into something that could change direction tomorrow. I say "may" because like you said we really don't know where there focus is at any given time. We can only hope but also keep our expectations reasonable and remain patient.

I have Ring and I truly hope they integrate in some way but I won't hold my breath and will keep my eyes open to workarounds. Hopefully the OP does not feel that our "cult" community was trying to be anything but helpful.

Stephan

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Ditto / agree.

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So is this a yes to being a ring partner then :stuck_out_tongue:

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The fact there are zero posts from Hubitat in this thread gives you your answer...

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I was being sarcastic.

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I know. I should have put a smiley on mine too. :slight_smile:

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My response was submitted here, but it was really a general response. I contemplated posting it elsewhere, in a more generalized thread, but it fit here as well.
I've read countless threads with innocent questions about integrations and the respondents come out of the woodwork again and again telling people how they're wrong to use Ring or Arlo or Nest or Honeywell or..... These same posts commonly include references to the evils of cloud services and integrations as a whole and an erroneous statement that Hubitat is a non-cloud platform. 11 separate integrations would seem to prove otherwise.
I've also posted questions here and received these responses, and they usually lead to the anti-cloud acolytes taking over the thread, discussing their favorite non-cloud equipment or system, etc. alternative with no consideration that the person asking may have already invested considerable money into the system that they are asking about. Several posts in, we are knee deep into engineering users debating an entirely different system or systems from the ones originally invested in and posted on. Ultimately, the original question tends not to be answered.
I understand the purpose and benefit of a robust user community. I have found some great information and solutions here. I also understand that, in a field like this, there can be a tendency for the community to be taken over by an agenda or a group with one.

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You think that was bad... ask them if they plan on supporting Windows Phone or Cortana... You get the double whammy by the Google Acolytes and Apple Brigade, and lectured by developers about the evils of the Microsoft ecosystem. But worst of all? You give hope to the three other people that use those products. The hope that the product they love, could have meaning beyond the simple pleasures they've provided us for years. Meaning, as the sensation of waning warmth from the last faltering ember of support is slowly replaced with a gentle green screen of death.

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This has to be the most poetic thing I've read on community.hubitat.com .....

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Hmmm....

Comparing support for products and services that are widely adopted (purchased) with growing user bases, with active and expanding developer support from the platform creators as well as a multitude of third party developers.....

To

A mobile platform that was publicly dropped by its creator who now actively supports Android, and Cortana, which was originally a game creation, then Microsoft scrambled develop it in an attempt to offer a function on that defunct mobile platform that was similar to its competitors.

I don’t understand sarcasm. Could you explain it??? I’ve only used it for 40+ years. I’m still learning.

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My personal experience with technology mobs predates this platform and all of the factors you listed. I was not implying that the fine folks here actually add support for my preferred phone. I get it, it's a discontinued platform.

As for sarcasm, it can be hard to convey when typing in a forum, anD wE MAy nEver FinD a wAY to DO sO.

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My last line was sarcastic.
You’re right. We may never find a way to convey that brilliance in this format..... but we can sure as he// try.

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I don't see anywhere in this thread as to where the above sentence is anywhere Implied? Most are merely stating the obvious as Hubitat has very limited resources available. And there are literally Hundreds of "widely accepted popular" devices. Will it ever happen.....maybe? Is it a top priority for their limited resources....No. Especially for devices that can already be virtually adopted through integrations they already support like IFTTT.

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I feel ya. I miss my Windows phone terribly. Samsung dropping support for Windows phone (among other things) was a major reason I made the switch to Hubitat.

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I understand limited resources.
I also understand business and marketing.
If Hubitat’s objective is to not only survive, but to also flourish and become a leader in their space, they need a good product that is open, accessible, and compatible as possible.
For the widest adoption of a platform (Such as Hubitat), best to focus resources on compatibility with platforms that are already the widest adopted.
It’s simple math. Which is opens the door to more purchases of Hubitat products?
A) Compatibility/Interoperability with a device Or platform used by hundreds or thousands.
B) Compatibility/Interoperability with a device or platform used by millions.

It’s pretty clear, working with a system already owned by millions, who have already shown a willingness to purchase smart home products, opens the door to more people with more money that can buy Hubitat products.

Is that selling their souls to the devil?
Nope. I have confidence that the Hubitat crew can create a system that is both compatible and protects the users.

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It is also important to realize that not all companies (e.g. Logitech, Nest, etc...) are very open to having tons of companies as partners. Logitech has stopped accepting requests for integration. And Google/Nest stopped accepting new "Works with Nest" integrations over a year ago as well.

I believe Hubitat would gladly add additional integrations, if those vendors were open and willing to accept new partnerships from small companies. However, I get the feeling that vendors like Logitech have decided to focus on huge companies like Amazon, Google, Samsung, etc... at this time, due to the amount of support required for a plethora of small integrations.

Just my 2 cents...:thinking:

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I always find it unbelievable that there are people who don't have a successful rapidly expanding platform, who offer unsolicited advice to a successful rapidly expanding platform, on what is required for their success, as well as assuming their view is what everyone views as correct......hubris

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Not hubris.
Logic
“rapidly expanding platform...”
That’s GREAT!
Keys to remaining “rapidly expanding” include

  • Adding features that users are asking for
  • Responding to questions that are repeatedly asked by users in its User Community that’s is promoted and leaned on (for support and communication).
  • Unless the objective is to remain a relatively small “rapidly expanding platform” (which is a subjective measurement), incorporate the most widely adopted sub-platforms that make up the products and services in the space chosen.

None of that is self aggrandizement, over confidence, or self importance; just logic and Business 101.
But maybe you prefer to call logic “hubris”.

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Again, what are your credentials to offer this "unsolicited" advise? Which successful platform have you created and are currently running? You do realize this "rapidly expanding platform" occurred prior to your advise......one would think they would have hired you to get were they are now?

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