Yes that's correct and what I was trying to express. But there wasn't an option where a secure device like a lock or secure entry device like a garage door controller could join without security. On a C-7 (whether it's working as expected at the moment is completely different) you can deselect all security, so it appears to an end user like you can do that for any device, but if it's a lock or secure entry device like a garage door controller that require it, you can expect it to fail inclusion if you deselect all the security options.
Everyone should be sure to check the manufacturers manuals carefully where secure and non-secure inclusion is concerned. Many devices have separate methods for putting the device into secure vs non-secure inclusion mode. Secure inclusion methods are not yet outlined in the Hubitat Join and Reset Instructions.
Just so i understand what actually is being said here...
Zwave inclusion of plus devices with S2 security has a problem currently? This is limited to S2 but it should be otherwise okay if you unselect all options in the popup except the S0 option?
My symptoms are as follows:
I pair my aeotec Range Extender 7 by putting it into the "breathing light mode". Once i start zwave inclusion i wait a second or two and hit the button on the range extender. Fairly shortly after that it discovers the device and pop up the key dialog. i enter my 5 digit key and hit ok. The zwave inclusion timer restarts at 60 seconds and the device remains as discovered.
Once 60 seconds is up, it sits in the state of "discovered" and "initializing". I can wait an hour and its stuck on that page. The light on the range extender is solid, indicating that it has been paired.
I do an exclude and i again hit the button to exclude the device. I get no conformation that any device has been excluded. I do a factory reset on the range extender and get it back to the "breathing mode" indicating ready to pair. I start zwave including, and hit the button on the range extender. This time i deselect every option except the s0 option. I click ok.
I still get stuck on "discovered" and "initializing".
If i go to settings->"Zwave utillities" i think i see the device as being last in the list.
In fact, i think device 0x0C and 0x0d is the same device. Maybe i should remove device 0x0C as i suspect its an orphan from my previous inclusion attempt.
so is this me doing something wrong? Or is this a probklem with the zwave inclusion process on the hub? Specifically the zwave plus with S2? I have one of those zooz motion detectors and i can't get that one to include either.
I'm happy to wait for a bit if you guys tell me that it sounds like this is a known problem being worked on. I would appreciate a general idea of timing so i don't troll the forums every day looking for updates. In general i like the idea of a ticket that i can be notified when it changes state, but i realize that this is consumer tech and not enterprise tech and this may not scale for this type of products but some form of way of subscribing to announcements when i'm impacted by technical difficulties would be useful...
In fact i think smartthings got that right with their service dashboard eg "users across the globe are reporting incidents with difficulty to include Zwave plus devices with S2 security -currently ongoing", maybe its something that can be a tab on the portal.hubitat.com after you login?
I don't know if it is what you want, but you can subscribe to categories on this forum. Go to your user profile, preferences. There are notification settings called categories. I personally have Announcements and Release Notes in my Watched category. I get notified any time something is posted in there, and the only ones who can post in those categories is Hubitat staff.
I would not do that unless you really want to use S0. S0 incurs significant overhead (up to 3x the traffic of S2 or "regular"/non-secure-paired devices), and staff have previously recommended using it only when necessary (e.g., door locks or other devices). The choice, however, is yours. In my testing of various devices with the C-7, I did have better luck with S2 devices if I unchecked all options. But you could certainly try with whatever level of security the device supports (or just S0 if you prefer for some reason)--it's not that it doesn't work at all, just that some people seem to have problems with some devices.
Except for Aeotec, most of the devices I've worked with don't have separate pairing procedures for secure vs not secure and if I'm not mistaken, that prompt won't pop up on the C-7 if the device isn't S2, so is there any way to prevent them from joining with S0 security?
Some more experiences with WD200 and S2. In case it's useful for support.
I also have seven WD200+ switches. Worked fine on ST.
When I tried to bring up the first one up on HE (C7,2.3.3.118) I couldn't add it with S2. After several tries I got it added with S2. The log showed physical key presses but no responses or log entries when I tried it from the device page. So I gave up and added it without S2 and it was fine.
I few days later (2.2.3.119) I decided to try again with the same results for S2. One more try with S2 and it seemed to be working normally. But I see in the device and Z-Wave data that S2 was never applied.
When the routing info displays correctly I see that I am routing through some of the WD200s so I don't see a real problem. But would like to see S2 ironed out.
Strike three. Read this and tried to add it, yet again, with level 0 checked. Same bad result. physical yes but nothing using Z-Wave.
I am a SmartThings user who is trying to move over to Hubitat. I had zero issues with Smarthings over 6 years and the recent app changes made me switch. It seems like Hubitat is a pile of trash at the moment. I purchased a C7 and can't get a light switch that is next to the C7 to pair. Once I did get it to pair (attempted to pair it for an hour) the device lost connectivity an hour or two later and is a ghost device. Looks like I will be using hub connect and pairing all the devices to SmartThings for the time being. I am not a happy new Hubitat user.
Ah, with such a reasonable, well thought out, and not at all inflammatory comment as that I'm sure you'll get lots of help and sympathy.
That said, I do feel your pain though. For those having zwave issues on the C-7 it is quite frustrating right now. It will get better, but that doesn't make it easier in the meantime.
Yeah unfortunate timing with the newly released hub and teething pains. I think they are really close to nailing most of the issues though so hang tight a little bit longer if you can. Sucks I know but here we are.
What firmware version are you on? Do you have any ghost devices - see the Z-Wave details page for any blank devices?
@danabw had some luck rolling back the firmware version to 2.2.3.119
I am on the latest firmware, I tried all the hacks listed in threads. I am just going to let this thing sit in the box till it matures. I did have ghost devices and tried to repair and remove. Super frustrating as a new user but it is what it is.
I purchased a z-wave hub that cannot include any of my z-wave devices. I have 6-7 hours into this just to realize its firmware issues. I now have to put this device back in the box and wait for firmware to correct the issues. So this device is a paper weight for me. I don't feel like I am being overly harsh in my statement that this device at the moment is a pile of trash/paper weight.
If you think it is a pile of trash, then send it back then or throw it away (as it is "trash" per your definition).
As you aren't actually throwing it in the "trash", then maybe saying it is "broken" or "unusable for my purposes" is more accurate, and less inflammatory?
Anyway, good luck whichever path you choose. And I agree the state of the C-7 is quite frustrating right now for those experiencing issues.
My only question is wasn't this C-7 hub tested during production before it was released to the public? I purchased one but am waiting for issues to be ironed out before installing it. God bless the community for their hard work. Hubitat is so lucky to have a dedicated community to be what has turned out to be beta testers. My C5 is working perfectly thanks to the many in the community who offered up their time in helping me when I stumbled. I have no doubt the C-7 hub issues will be ironed out with more time and patience.
I don't really have a choice but to migrate to something. The smartthings app migration has jacked my hub up so I can't add new devices to smartthings (support is a joke). They are killing off groovy which impacts all the applications I am currently using. The good thing is I am not waiting till the last minute to migrate off so I have some time to wait around on hubitat.
That is smart. SmartThings transition is really a pickle for many!
And I apologize if I was too cranky above. I get your frustration - and it is warranted for sure.
My OPINION is that Hubitat got themselves into a really tough spot... My guess (could be completely wrong) is that they ran out of C-5 supply, with COVID-19 couldn't easily just whip up another batch quickly, and had to make the tough decision to sell NOTHING or sell the C-7 now.
Well, a company that sells nothing - but retains their employees - doesn't stay in business long. So...
But again, that is purely speculation on my part. I also don't think it was recognized that there would be as many C-7 issues as there have been until it went out to a wider audience... I don't think for a second that they sold it knowing there would be a this many issues.
