Automation tips

Ive heard the arguments that if you need a dashboard then you're setup is lacking. Moreover, it should all be automated.

I don't get it, except for very specific situations, I feel automation is not flexible enough.

So tell me how do you guys deal with auto lighting rooms? I can have a light go on when motion is detected but sometimes I don't want it to go on. Sure I can put in restrictions, but even with "only at night" I still don't want it to go on if I am watching TV in that room. Sometimes I'll want the light to stay on, sometimes I'd rather it turn back off
I can capture the state of my light so it'll return to that state after 1 minute but it'll redo it Everytime it detects motion. Maybe I can setup an override of the motion rule if actual switch is pressed?
Maybe I'm just too dumb or maybe I just don't live so predictably?

These things need customization, and are different for everyone. I believe eventually there will be a gold standard automation template for rooms that everyone will understand, but until then we're all sort of inventing it. For this kind of customization, check out @bangali's Rooms Manager. Everything you mentioned is possible here.

Alternatively, you can build similar scenarios using a series of virtual switches and rules. I have a virtual switch called "[Room Name] Occupied", that turns on if a wall switch is used. It disables automation and turns off lights (and the virtual switch) after 5 minutes of no motion. This can also get rather complicated if you have other things going on like color temperature.

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I've seen people argue that a dashboard is not needed and you have to have automation, But then I've seen them also mention using Alexa to adjust things. Sorry but to me "full" automation means no user interaction. Whether you talk to a voice assistant, use a dashboard or a button controller that is intelligent control.

I think the 80/20 rule applies. 80 percent of what I want can be automated, for the rest I need intelligent control.

So when I go into the kitchen automation takes over and turns on lights, sets color and brightness based on time of day. This is great for grabbing a cup of coffee or a snack. However if I'm doing serious cooking I want a different setting. So this where automation stops and control takes over.

If your life and routines are so consistent that you can fully automate, then more power to you. When I walk into the den there is currently no way for the system to know what I plan to do. Watch TV, read a book, work a craft. watch a movie. Each of those activities requires a different group of settings. Hitting a button on Pico remote that kicks off a bunch of rules and actions is intelligent control but not full on automation.

So setup your system in a way that works for you, enjoy your dashboard, buttons, switches and voice control.

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if there is power or gas flow monitoring for the oven this setting could be automated as well. similarly with the right connected devices these could be automated as well with rooms manager:-)

To touch on your mention of consistency, I feel there is a certain 'real-ness' about walking into a room with zero automation. That's why my Morning mode has nothing automated. I like walking into the bathroom bleary-eyed in the morning without being blasted with light. If I need light I can manually turn it on. All this is to say that we are still human and full-on automation is therefore not always desired.

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Still would not work all time, I could be doing a lot of prep first like cleaning veggies, cutting and chopping and then using the Instapot instead of the stove.

I agree however, I also have modes of early morning and then morning. Early morning is dim lighting so as not offend this night owl who is forced to wake-up. I even have a late-night mode that has all motion lighting very dim red.

The only dashboard I use is to change home modes, if needed manually. I have paddles that have double click capability, so I leverage that to change the 'mode' of a room. Even the inbuilt apps such as Motion Lighting have different override capabilities, but I get a little more sophisticated than that in a lot of cases.

As mentioned, Room Manager is spectacular for adding complex overrides. I love the Engaged and Asleep ideas, leveraging the above mentioned double tap paddles to toggle those, in my case.

TBH, however, overrides are rarely used in my house. The automation are setup and/or restricted based on mode and activity, which in general are tied to a time of day and works for all but the most edge cases.

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I don't use dashboards.
I have almost everything automated, but it took a while to cover almost every scenario.
I still have some Hue dimmer switches for when I want to control something and I don't want to use use Alexa for fear of waking people up.

I use only 5 modes.
Early morning (almost everything manual)
Morning, (Triggered by illumination and turns off any lights left on from previous mode)
Afternoon,
Evening (which is triggered by illumination and turns all the required lights on)
Night (Manually triggered by a virtual switch or Alexa - Runs my night routine of turning everything off except it turns my hall/stairs lights to 25 %)

Home & Away etc are taken care of with virtual switches.

Andy

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My goal is effortless automation. Meaning I don't have to consciously reach for a light or lock, etc. I'm achieving that. I have tiles in case something doesn't respond, but I haven't used it in months. Here are some of my automations in my home.

Kitchen: Lightify led's above the cabinets. These are scheduled to turn on an hour before sunset and off an hour after sunrise. These also function as a nightlight and lighting when we go into the kitchen to do minor things. At times, these are the only lights. They dim down to 15% when there is no activity from the 4 motion sensors placed in the room. When there is activity, these lights will always brighten to 100% and dim when activity stops unless there are corresponding lights in the room on.
Between 5 and 7 the kitchen lights up with motion because this is typically dinner/arriving home/ eating dinner/ etc time. However, if i'm in the kitchen outside of those hours for more than 10 minutes the light will turn on because it sees the kitchen as being used. I also have can lighting in there that will typically turn on during off times as well but not after dinner hours. Sensors are placed in a way that will keep those areas covered and the lights on. I have a light for my pantry that turns on when opened and off when closed.

Basement: Has lamps. Sensors turn them on and turn off only if harmony has not activated movies/games/tv. The living room will also stay on if I am in my office. Laundry room and furnace room controlled by motion only. They don't require a ton of rules.

Bedroom only turns on full light if our phones aren't docked. Our docked phones control most of my modes except for away scenarios. I have contact sensors modified and attached to my qi chargers to control the mode so that if one of us goes to bed, the house knows not to activate those bedroom lights. Also in the morning.

This is the simple version of how I have our house set up. There are a LOT of other automations I didn't mention and I've spent a lot of time figuring out habits and ways to make it so that switches are simply for visitors. I use Rule Machine and Simple lighting for all of my automations. I've had a LOT of help with those rules from this community. I recommend setting this goal because people are way more impressed by something that doesn't have to be turned on or off with a thought. I love to see reactions when they tour the house and see things interacting. I LOVE saying "Oh you don't have to turn that off. It'll turn itself off."
One last mention - I have an outside light that turns on when I open the patio to let the dogs out and close the door and then off when i let them in and close the door. The garage lights turn on when any of the garage doors are opened or the lock is unlocked. So i truly believe that it's possible to do this without a dashboard. I still use one, but only for troubleshooting.

[Edit} Modes: All of my modes are automated. Away and home are triggered by presence unless phone dock status changes the status. Most of my modes are controlled by phone dock status. [Quiet time, night, morning, home] can be triggered by the status of 2 qi chargers fitted with modified contact sensors.

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if the motion sensors stay continuously busy rooms manager for example changes the room to engaged state which allows a different set of light settings to be used from the occupied state.

For this Drew, I use 3 motion sensors in my kitchen - at least one of them will pick me up at all times..
Then I use ‘Average All’ to aggregate them and set a 5 minute timer (which is constantly reset by movement) this is then pushed to a virtual motion sensor which activates the lights :slight_smile:

My lights NEVER go out when someone is in the kitchen :slight_smile:

Andy

I think I want to know more about this. I have the same concept, but I'm doing it in rule manager. I'd be interested in your way.

April, it’s just my ‘average all’ app.

Create a virtual device with the ‘average all driver’.
Setup a child app with multiple motion sensors.. assign the virtual to the app... then set a timeout.
(In my case 5 minutes)
In my kitchen I have 3 motion sensors (on 3 different walls)

The timeout will not start until ALL motion sensors report no motion
But... during the timeout, if any sensor reports motion then the timer is cancelled until the next time all sensors report no motion, then the timer starts again.

So, once I leave the kitchen the lights go off after 5 minutes.
(Actually they just dim in my case as I have a separate app that sets them to 20% when there is no motion - but I’ve never released that as it’s a bit specialised for my use case)

You then just need to use the average all virtual device in any app you use to turn the lights on/off with motion
For my office (setup with 2 motion sensors) I just use ‘motion controlled lights & switches’ to turn my monitor on/off with motion too

Andy

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Checkin' it out

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Need to test this out.

Normally I don't like to use virtual devices as I believe they defy the core of devices.
But this might be worth an exception.

I normally use a similar setup and have this setup in ST:
If MS1 detects movement or MS2 detects movement or MS3 than turns lights if no movement in ms1 ms2 and ms3 in the last 5 minutes turn off lights

@Cobra How does Average All differ from OR in a Rule?

Either Motion turns on a Light, Both Motion must be off to begin the timer to Off

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Andy, My example was not one of lights going on/off on me because of the motion sensors. I'm using two motion sensor in my kitchen and I could make do with lux levels and time of day setting the light level. There are times I want it much brighter than my automation sets it. I'm home office based, somedays I start at 5 am other days not till 9. Some nights cooking is at 5 other nights might not be until 8:30. 80% of the time my automated settings are good enough, however, I want the ability to adjust and override automation for operating room bright. :mask:

This is not directed at you Andy, this just a general statement. My point being, telling somebody they are doing it wrong because they use a dashboard, a button controller or a voice assistant is not being realistic, everybody's needs and wants are different.

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Yes, I get that.

The flawed assumption/argument many make when trying to convince you that it CAN be automated is that you want the same thing to happen every time certain conditions happen.

I don't.

Even at certain times of day or ambient lux, sometimes I want the lights bright. Sometimes dim. Sometimes off.

Thus for ME dashboards and voice commands are perfect. Automation of lights is not. Never will be for ME.

And that's ok.

I think hubitat, et al, need to improve dashboard capability. And based on their comments, they are working on that. Which is good.

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Not that you were asking for advice, but why set up separate conditions with OR? Selecting multiple sensors in one condition does "any" by default, which is the same as "OR".

Also JMO but this seems a lot simpler than averaging with a timer and a virtual motion sensor as @csteele said...?