Are there any actual smart rocker switches?

A badge that has to be earned by steady and persistent ignorance that is rare to find. I wish you well, my friend. :wink:

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Iā€™ve been thinking more about this requirement, and Iā€™m not sure how this would be possible.

Consider a dumb, three-way switch (what we call them in the US, I believe in the UK itā€™s a two-way switch).

If the lighting load can be controlled from two places, then AFAIK itā€™s not possible for each rocker to always be in the ā€œrightā€ position if youā€™d prefer up = on and down = off.

Same logic holds true for a smart switch, even in a one-way configuration I think (i.e. thereā€™s only one physical switch controlling the light).

Turn a rocker switch on physically, then turn the light off with an app. Now your rocker switch is ā€œwrong.ā€ But how would you work around that?

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Another musing. If the room is dark and the light is off, then whatever position the switch is in (up or down), flipping it would turn the light on, wouldnā€™t it?

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I would say you are forgetting that you could be using automations and other methods to turn on the lights rather than fumbling around in the dark. What is the point of an automation hub if you are flipping on switches all the time? I like almost never touch a light switch anymore.

  • Use motion sensors and turn certain lights on with motion to 10% level after bedtime. (this is nice to have)
  • Use a button near your bed that you can easily push. There are some very inexpensive buttons out there.
  • If you live alone, holler at Alexa.
  • Have a LED strip that changes to dim red in the bathroom at dusk (AKA red nightlight), and brightens upon motion so the main lights don't even have to come on. No more white light disturbing your sleep. (this is great, I do this)
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This was going to be for a bathroom and a closet. The main reason for having it part of HE is to be able to turn everything off easily. The "normal switch" goal is because I don't live alone any more and I've never really liked having to fumble around and try to feel where the on button is on the Lutrons. Alas, the Aqaras are too big to fit in this building's ancient boxes. Back to dumb switches it is.

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Sadly, persistent ignorance isn't hard to find. I've always thought Bill Engvall had it right. Here's your sign...

Ironically after figuring out the Aqaras aren't actually rockers, it's just one big button, I decided they'd be ok. Except then I figured out they won't fit in my ancient double gang box. Ugh. And since my walls are concrete block, I'm not going through all THAT to put in a modern box.

Not a rocker, but Lutron RadioRA 2 Maestro tap buttons look and work the exact same as dumb Maestros. Depending on switch placement and room use bathrooms and closets can frequently use dumb Lutron Maestro combo motion sensor dimmers. :popcorn:

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FWIW, all three of my bathrooms and closets have motion lighting with a contact sensor as a trigger to turn on, Those three six "rooms" are amongst my earliest automations. And. honestly, I have never touched a switch/dimmer in any of them since 2018-2019.

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It is possible and this is what I have in my place. In the UK.

What's not possible is defying physics and not needing a potential difference to supply power to a device.

As a electrician I know this so I ensured there was a supply at each switch position, as mentioned before there is also ability's to get over this with a dimmer and using the lamp as a return path.

There are a few products which do this but to my knowledge they are all modules which sit behind a standard switch like mine. A example is the fibaro dimmer 2. You can attach a push to make retractable switch (1 input) to to which each time it's pressed will toggle the load. You can then using the strapper wires (travelers I think you call them) wire another switch in parallel. Essential that means any switch press is alway triggering the same input.

Or you can do the same but for a central off retractable switch (2 inputs). Again you parallel up the common and the inputs to other switches, because they are retractable this is not a issue and means the buttons all do the same thing all the time.

We use this with our work products and I have all of this at home.

I have a old house so wanted normal looking physical switches with smarts and doing this gives me loads of options. This way I get to put what ever switches I like next to each other.


3 push to make 1 centre off retractable

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Yes I suppose I was thinking of standard rocker and toggle switches. Iā€™m not very familiar with those kinds of switches you have, I donā€™t think theyā€™re that common in the US?

If Iā€™m understanding correctly, the switch on the right rests in a central position after you push it?

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For a "latching" switch it's not possible because in order to make it so "up" is always on when you had switches in two way it is not electrically possible.

Yeah they exist you just need to find manufacturer who sell a "dumb" retractive or bell push switch. All ours do you just need to ask, but not all are able to mix and match like Scolmore can with their mini grid.

Yeah, the 1st 3 you push down and the "bounce back" the last one does that for pressing the top or the bottom.

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Ah, so they all ā€œbounce backā€ to the middle position. OP rejected that as an option.

But Iā€™m more certain now that what OP is looking for in a smart switch, isnā€™t actually possible from a physics/electricity standpoint.

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If I understood the request correctly (perhaps not), a switch could be designed to indicate on/off by physically operating the switch. But to do that would require mechanical parts (solenoid? electromagnet and a spring? ???) that would be difficult to fit into the form factor.

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Yes I suppose I could see some way of keeping a smart switch in sync with a three-way or app-based on/off actions, if thereā€™s a way to automate mechanical movement of the smart switch.

But that seems so impractical, which you allude to.

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"to make it so "up" is always on when you had switches in two way it is not electrically possible."

Of course it's possible. All it would take is some sort of actuator so the switch can control its own physical position. That's what I would like. If I say" Alexa turn off the light" the switch would physically move.

Since these exist, what I'm talking about is not impossible.

Switchmate Snap-On Instant Smart Light Switch That Listens - Switchmate Toggle https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01EV7FXOA/ref=cm_sw_r_apan_glt_i_H712A3839RWZVBE7VWTW

There are battery powered devices that affix on top of dumb rocker or toggle switches and can physically move them with a connection to z-wave/zigbee etc.

I havenā€™t seen one that works that way within a smart switch itself. Probably for size/cost issues as others have said.

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The snap on ones, like what I just posted, are quite thick. Oh well. I'd accept that to get the features integrated into the actual switch. And all it would really take is a small electromagnet that would move the physical switch.

Yeah switchmate is one example of those.

The barrier to fitting that functionality inside the smart switch itself is not laziness or unimaginative design concepts.

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