There isn't a physical space for a solenoid. If you have ever opened these up, they are quite literally packed to the gills with stuff.
They have, it is called "you need a neutral". Electricity can't happen without a potential difference. In plain English, that means you need a hot and a lower "pressure" path for the electrons to return back. In our electrical grid system, that is called the neutral. The other option is to cheat and find another lower voltage path back via the load side of things when the load is off.
You could do a battery powered switch, but that would require changing batteries, or again having a hot and neutral to charge the batteries. If you could find a way to make electricity without a neutral or ground, you would be very rich.
There are some technical reasons like the lack of space for the actuator, but most likely because the way that we do it is cheapest and easiest and there is quite literally no demand to build a special switch like this.
They barely sell toggles, and now we want a self-actuating toggle that cost more than a normal one? No business case for that. Most people with a smart home want a more modern paddle (Decora style) than the old-fashion toggle. I do have some toggles in my house, so I am not picking on those. But a majority of the sales are paddle, judging by who makes what and how many models of each are available.
My understanding is the units that can function without neutral are all dimmers. The reason is part technical and part philosophical.
A no neutral dimmer runs a current through the load when the dimmer is "off". This current is so low the light cannot be seen.
An ON/OFF switch implies when OFF there is no connection to the load. Hence no opportunity to steal power.
You have misinterpreted what I wrote. You can desire all the complexity you want. And again, you'll need to convince one or more manufacturers that the sophistication you need is widely desired - that's the only opinion that matters.
I don’t think anyone’s telling you what to think, or suggesting your preferences are somehow invalid.
But you seem resistant to the notion that there could be technical and/or economic factors that have made devices with these specific features not widely available (or not available at all).
The issue I've found is that the smart toggles are just different enough as to be annoying to clients who want a consistent look throughout their house. Decora style seems a little better in this regard.
I have one client that ended up replacing almost all of their switches with smart switches (Zooz Z23/24s, & GE Enbrightens) for this reason. Of course that has it's own set of issues but uniformity is not one of them...
You know that is what the neighbors are saying about these people's homes.
"Joan is a terrific decorator, and her and Fred's new home is lovely. Tis a pity that those darn light switches ruin the whole thing. Cross them off the Christmas card list, and never speak to them again."
People let the silliest things bug them sometimes. Nobody sees the difference between the switches, especially in areas like a bath or bedroom where there is a door and often paint and flooring differences.
But give the client what they want, they are always correct of course.
I posted a perfectly valid question and description of what I want, and because of someone else MY post gets deleted? Lemme guess, the person who was telling me why I shouldn't want what I want is some sort of admin? Is that how things go around here?
I’m not sure what you’re talking about at this point. None of the users in this thread (including those of us with the “ambassador” title) can delete your posts.
Hey - no one deleted your post. Someone else (not me) moved the thread to the "Debate Chamber". A moderator (again not me) changed your user classification so you could see the thread again.
There's no conspiracy against you, me, or anyone else.
Well I tried to reply and it said the post was deleted. The notifications even disappeared. Now they're back. Strange is this a quirky forum like that? I'm new so not used to it.
Agreed. That would have been a good idea. But the person who moved the thread didn't realize you hadn't been here long enough to have access to the "Debate Chamber". So they acted out of good intentions as well.
This is one of the reasons I want what I want. Make it look, feel, and work like a regular switch that everyone has been used to for decades... But incorporate smart features. Resale would be a big part of that too. I wonder how often people pass on a home because they just want regular old dumb switches.
Honestly I'm already to the point where if I wanted to sell my place I'd probably have to put all dumb switches back in. I'm surprised the manufacturers of smart home devices haven't thought of this stuff.
At times I have felt like I've been put on an "ignore" list but usually that's my paranoia kicking in or the community not realizing the amazing wisdom of my posts/rants especially when it relates to Node-RED, Big Cloud, or ponies ...
We're still at the leading edge of the cusp of smart homes. For now, I believe many people with smart homes remove the smarts before putting their house up for sale. And there have been a few examples on this community describing this.
However, the widespread availability of inexpensive WiFi switches (all of which also return to a central position) is slowly changing the expectation of how a switch works. So it would not surprise me if in 10-15 years switches that remain in a position are considered anachronisms.
Just as home land-line phones are largely considered as anachronisms now. In a recent mini-survey I did of ~7 community members, only two of us still had home phones.
Edit - actually rotary phones to touch tone is probably a more apt example. I watched a clip recently where teens were trying to figure out how to use a rotary phone.
Exactly!!!!!!!
