Well I tried to reply and it said the post was deleted. The notifications even disappeared. Now they're back. Strange is this a quirky forum like that? I'm new so not used to it.
Well maybe letting me know all that was being done would have been helpful so I didn't start getting error messages that said it was deleted.
2 Likes
Agreed. That would have been a good idea. But the person who moved the thread didn't realize you hadn't been here long enough to have access to the "Debate Chamber". So they acted out of good intentions as well.
4 Likes
This is one of the reasons I want what I want. Make it look, feel, and work like a regular switch that everyone has been used to for decades... But incorporate smart features. Resale would be a big part of that too. I wonder how often people pass on a home because they just want regular old dumb switches.
Honestly I'm already to the point where if I wanted to sell my place I'd probably have to put all dumb switches back in. I'm surprised the manufacturers of smart home devices haven't thought of this stuff.
Fair enough, thank you for the explanation.
1 Like
At times I have felt like I've been put on an "ignore" list but usually that's my paranoia kicking in or the community not realizing the amazing wisdom of my posts/rants especially when it relates to Node-RED, Big Cloud, or ponies ... 
I think I need that badge that @danabw has...
3 Likes
We're still at the leading edge of the cusp of smart homes. For now, I believe many people with smart homes remove the smarts before putting their house up for sale. And there have been a few examples on this community describing this.
However, the widespread availability of inexpensive WiFi switches (all of which also return to a central position) is slowly changing the expectation of how a switch works. So it would not surprise me if in 10-15 years switches that remain in a position are considered anachronisms.
Just as home land-line phones are largely considered as anachronisms now. In a recent mini-survey I did of ~7 community members, only two of us still had home phones.
Edit - actually rotary phones to touch tone is probably a more apt example. I watched a clip recently where teens were trying to figure out how to use a rotary phone.
6 Likes
A badge that has to be earned by steady and persistent ignorance that is rare to find. I wish you well, my friend.
5 Likes
I’ve been thinking more about this requirement, and I’m not sure how this would be possible.
Consider a dumb, three-way switch (what we call them in the US, I believe in the UK it’s a two-way switch).
If the lighting load can be controlled from two places, then AFAIK it’s not possible for each rocker to always be in the “right” position if you’d prefer up = on and down = off.
Same logic holds true for a smart switch, even in a one-way configuration I think (i.e. there’s only one physical switch controlling the light).
Turn a rocker switch on physically, then turn the light off with an app. Now your rocker switch is “wrong.” But how would you work around that?
4 Likes
Another musing. If the room is dark and the light is off, then whatever position the switch is in (up or down), flipping it would turn the light on, wouldn’t it?
3 Likes
I would say you are forgetting that you could be using automations and other methods to turn on the lights rather than fumbling around in the dark. What is the point of an automation hub if you are flipping on switches all the time? I like almost never touch a light switch anymore.
- Use motion sensors and turn certain lights on with motion to 10% level after bedtime. (this is nice to have)
- Use a button near your bed that you can easily push. There are some very inexpensive buttons out there.
- If you live alone, holler at Alexa.
- Have a LED strip that changes to dim red in the bathroom at dusk (AKA red nightlight), and brightens upon motion so the main lights don't even have to come on. No more white light disturbing your sleep. (this is great, I do this)
5 Likes
This was going to be for a bathroom and a closet. The main reason for having it part of HE is to be able to turn everything off easily. The "normal switch" goal is because I don't live alone any more and I've never really liked having to fumble around and try to feel where the on button is on the Lutrons. Alas, the Aqaras are too big to fit in this building's ancient boxes. Back to dumb switches it is.
1 Like
Sadly, persistent ignorance isn't hard to find. I've always thought Bill Engvall had it right. Here's your sign...
Ironically after figuring out the Aqaras aren't actually rockers, it's just one big button, I decided they'd be ok. Except then I figured out they won't fit in my ancient double gang box. Ugh. And since my walls are concrete block, I'm not going through all THAT to put in a modern box.
Not a rocker, but Lutron RadioRA 2 Maestro tap buttons look and work the exact same as dumb Maestros. Depending on switch placement and room use bathrooms and closets can frequently use dumb Lutron Maestro combo motion sensor dimmers. 
1 Like
FWIW, all three of my bathrooms and closets have motion lighting with a contact sensor as a trigger to turn on, Those three six "rooms" are amongst my earliest automations. And. honestly, I have never touched a switch/dimmer in any of them since 2018-2019.
4 Likes
It is possible and this is what I have in my place. In the UK.
What's not possible is defying physics and not needing a potential difference to supply power to a device.
As a electrician I know this so I ensured there was a supply at each switch position, as mentioned before there is also ability's to get over this with a dimmer and using the lamp as a return path.
There are a few products which do this but to my knowledge they are all modules which sit behind a standard switch like mine. A example is the fibaro dimmer 2. You can attach a push to make retractable switch (1 input) to to which each time it's pressed will toggle the load. You can then using the strapper wires (travelers I think you call them) wire another switch in parallel. Essential that means any switch press is alway triggering the same input.
Or you can do the same but for a central off retractable switch (2 inputs). Again you parallel up the common and the inputs to other switches, because they are retractable this is not a issue and means the buttons all do the same thing all the time.
We use this with our work products and I have all of this at home.
I have a old house so wanted normal looking physical switches with smarts and doing this gives me loads of options. This way I get to put what ever switches I like next to each other.
3 push to make 1 centre off retractable
2 Likes
Yes I suppose I was thinking of standard rocker and toggle switches. I’m not very familiar with those kinds of switches you have, I don’t think they’re that common in the US?
If I’m understanding correctly, the switch on the right rests in a central position after you push it?
3 Likes
For a "latching" switch it's not possible because in order to make it so "up" is always on when you had switches in two way it is not electrically possible.
Yeah they exist you just need to find manufacturer who sell a "dumb" retractive or bell push switch. All ours do you just need to ask, but not all are able to mix and match like Scolmore can with their mini grid.
Yeah, the 1st 3 you push down and the "bounce back" the last one does that for pressing the top or the bottom.
2 Likes
Ah, so they all “bounce back” to the middle position. OP rejected that as an option.
But I’m more certain now that what OP is looking for in a smart switch, isn’t actually possible from a physics/electricity standpoint.
2 Likes
