Yes, all metal. I guess I assumed that was OK, as that's the vast majority of device boxes, and this is literally the first time I'm reading this is an issue.
I'd have been cool with a little antenna even :).
This has been a problem with my Insteon switches. Not many left in my house, but the ones that were not working via the power line mesh wouldn't work reliably via their radio at all.
[Edit] I don't know about you @ChubChub, but my house was built in 1926, so the electrical boxes that I have not replaced are very thick metal.
1 Like
I'm not familiar with Canadian building practices but in the US the vast majority of electrical boxes are plastic. There are some metal but mostly from really old houses with specific needs or commercial buildings. I have an 80's house and I have only 2 metal boxes in the whole house the rest are old plastic fiber glass type boxes... probably killing myself with asbestos ripping them out 
You might want to check your boxes as you may find not all of them are metal? I dunno... if you find some that aren't metal especially outlets those could be prime for z-wave outlets.
Alternative would be Insteon. Hubitat doesn't have native support for Insteon but it's a dual band (powerline and RF) so the metal boxes won't matter if you have good powerline signal.
1 Like
Some devices have antenna's arranged more to the front of the device. You'd have to get details from Zooz calling @agnes.zooz about their antenna placement because I don't know.
Alternative (as I looked down in my office) would be power strips. Everyone has and uses power strips for things. Could possibly replace existing strips with z-wave power strips? I agree with the not wanting lots of plugs in the walls all over for repeaters but sometimes it's necessary and you can generally hide them behind things easy enough and plugs serve double duty.
The new Aeotec Range Extender 7 is built with the 700 series chip. Not sure how much better range you'll actually get from it but it might be worth trying. I don't know yet as mine hasn't arrived yet.
I'm not seeing them in Canada yet. Would have to import. Not sure how that would go right now. 
1 Like
My house was built in 1969-1970: all metal boxes for sure, as I replaced all the old style plugs with new style when I bought the place. Well, excluding the one in the cellar that was obviously added a few years before I bought the house. My dad's place 1975: all metal. My sister's place, built in 2000: all metal. Maybe it IS a Canadian thing? If you go to Home Depot up here, the lion's share of those switch/outlet boxes are metal, but maybe that's just me selectively seeing what I want to? It's possible.
Regardless, if the metal box is causing the issues, I guess I'll either have to buy switches without this limitation (the new versions of my switches are only $25, so not too bad), or spend the many hrs/device fixing the boxes (Z1, in my pic, is a 3 gang, and I need to get back in there to fix something anyways ... might as well spend 2 hours replacing the box) ... maybe in another 3 years ;).
I will wait on @agnes.zooz to see if there is any feedback on the new versions of these switches greatly mitigating/resolving this issue.
FYI - I'm gathering up a lot of stuff I'm going to be selling soon as well. 
This actually explains a lot.... this would be why the vast majority of Insteon users on the ISY forum are all in Canada.... hmmm.
1 Like
Yes! Second day in a row. No reboot. Tested from 2:10am to 2:40am. All normal speed from 2;30am on. Around a 1 second or less delay before 2:30am. I have not had this stability for a long time. Probably not long after I decided to use the Aeon HEM in that way with a 1 second polling. 
I was warned, but it's now working fine on the other hub with the other HEM. 
2 Likes
Code in Chicago area requires metal boxes and conduit. I have no problems with Z-Wave performance in my house. And I don't see lots of Z-Wave problems posted from other Chicago users in this or other forums. Local Home Depot and Lowes continue to stock Z-Wave devices.
I'm not saying interference caused by metal boxes is not creating issues in this case, just that it's not likely to be the only or even primary issue.
1 Like
The instructions were created for the available hubs at that time. For NWI to work, the hub needs to support it as well and 3 years ago most of the hubs didn't (hubs are usually a generation or two behind the available accessories...) so that's why we phrased the instructions this way.
We have other customers using metal boxes with their Z-Wave switches and while some of them have connectivity problems, most of them don't and this always depends on the individual layout of Z-Wave repeaters, overall constructions materials in the house, the hub antennae, and other interference issues. The quickest way to solve connectivity issues is to add repeaters in the same room to have strong signal around the switch.
1 Like
So, I couldn't sleep last night, so I pulled both of my problematic dimmers out of their boxes, and it didn't solve anything (left them this way until the morning), so while the metal boxes might have been an issue, it's not the whole issue. At this point, I have no idea why these switches cannot communicate in such an ideal situation (they're not even in the wall).
I decided to just put a bunch of my Iris Z-Wave repeaters right beside the Zooz switches; the repeaters can communicate with each other AOK (assuming the "Interrogate" button coming back with "Interrogation complete", and each of the attempts responding after the 1st request meaning all is good"), but a rebuild shows all except the closest repeater failing to rebuild. The garage switch still refuses to cooperate (despite being 6' away from a "functioning" Iris repeater).
@bcopeland I have been doing wireless network engineering since 2001... I would put money on the solid carrier wave analog interference source..
Just for you 
I managed to get my "spectrum analyzer" working on my laptop, showing no excitement on the 908.42MHz band (until I force a rebuild, which I made a video of it happening).
Note: In this video, I started recording when stuff started to happen (you can see the commands on the right). The last 5-ish seconds of video is what is happening 100% of the time if I turn off power to my ZWave devices (aka: no interference). I'd also note this spectrum analyzer is garbage, as is the antenna, but you can see the ZWave signal is dramatically higher than background noise.
1 Like
The one thing I would note from your spectrum analyzer .. and I'm hoping it's because of some artificial amplification.. But if this is correct your noise floor is at ~-55dBm that's high..
1 Like
It's only because the spectrum analyzer is garbage; paid like $10 for it off eBay, so it's SNR is abysmal.
If I pull out the antenna, meaning it is basically not getting any signal, it does not impact the noise floor. The only value the device really has in this scenario is to show that the ZWave signals are considerably higher than surrounding signals.
1 Like
Ok.. Sounds reasonable.. I retract my theory
1 Like
This is so annoying. I have now littered Iris ZWave plugs around, and now EVERYTHING works except one switch (which is in line-of-sight of a seemingly functioning Iris outlet, is only 8' away from it, and the switch is currently hanging out of the junction box ... TBD what's up with that guy).
However, during a rebuild, I get the 4x "Repair setting SUC route" on many devices, but they seem to be working perfectly fine (the switches respond instantaneously). Should I care that the ZWave rebuild seems to be failing on many devices?
I'm debating getting more of these seemingly problematic Zooz switches to strengthen my mesh (I "need" at least one more switch, maybe 2).
There are 4 slots for SUC routes, you're seeing each of them being set one at a time.
I was told seeing those 4x is "bad". It seems a "proper" rebuild goes start, ping, set SUC, update neighbors, request associations, delete routes, add return route, add node neighbor into, then repair done.
Many devices go start, ping, set SUC route 4x ... nothing else (no repair done, which tells me it didn't work). Only three devices of my 7 report the "proper" way, but the other 4 do the 4x SUC thing.
I think you are right.
Running a ZWave Repair on one of my meshes, I'm seeing 4x Set SUC when Zniffer is showing there are no ACKs to the command... indicating not received by the target device. Probably battery devices that aren't awake.
