ZWave Mesh Not Meshing

I don't this issue is caused by his DECT 6.0 phones, but on the subject of cordless phones...

Years ago I had some 5GHz cordless phones that were completely screwing up my 5GHz WiFi. Just happened to notice it when I was using the laptop and testing the phones at the same time. Didn't have to be on the phone. As soon as I plugged in the base, the problem started.

No.. Dect phone wouldn’t .. But it used to be popular to make these 900Mhz

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True, but he did say they were DECT 6.0

My Money is on the Aeon v1 HEM being the cause. Didn't get a response if he removed it. That's made a world of difference for me. Over 24 hours now, no reboot, no slow downs.
I know slowdowns are not the issue of this thread, but I'm dubious that they've not been the cause of issues I've had for quite some time. Good devices, but they seem to need to be isolated on a separate hub.

2am today was perfect. Only a 1 second response slowdown just after 2am and repeated testing from 2:30am to 2:45am was blissful, as everything was responding at normal speed. Testing again tomorrow from 2~3am to see if it was just a short-term fix or if I've finally found what the cause was. :crossed_fingers:

I didn't see that in the devices he listed.

He must have forgotten. He was asking about it in another thread.

Oh wonderful...

Would be nice if ALL devices are mentioned and provided in the nice drawing and not cherry pick of what to display and ask about.

@agnes.zooz: All of our switches, even VER. 1.0 were always Z-Wave Plus and network wide inclusion was part of that protocol so they should all support it.

I assume this was not part of the specification at the time these devices were designed, as the provided documentation specifically mentions bringing the hub as close to the switches as possible, which would not be needed with NWI (as I understand it).

@SmartHomePrimer: Have you tried removing the Aeon v1 HEMs from the mesh?

Yes, first thing I did was remove the HEM. It didn't seem to be causing problems (other than getting responses from devices 2-4 times with it plugged in), but I removed it anyways just to be sure.

@bcopeland: I would put money on interference from an analog source.. Maybe it's even at a neighbor's house.. The symptoms and the layout.. I would bet it would be obvious with a spectrum analyzer..

I actually have a RTL2832U based USB dongle, but can't get the RTL driver to work :(. I will say the two houses beside my home are currently vacant, so the closest house is at least 100ft away. I thought about what else I have that's wireless, and remembered my Roku remote is RF; I cant find anything on the specs page, but I "THINK" it runs 2.4GHz. We have Time of Use meters as well, and they transmit power usage somehow ... might be 900MHz. I've also recently been hunting for ~50w of parasitic draw in my house, so maybe someone has a transmitter installed somewhere ;).

@jeubanks: Would be nice if ALL devices are mentioned and provided in the nice drawing and not cherry pick of what to display and ask about.

No cherry picking, the HEM is removed from the network, and turned off. The only devices on my ZWave network that are mains-powered were listed. If it matters, the other devices are a Monoprice door switch, a Utilitech water sensor, a Schlage deadbolt, and a Zooz 4-in-1 sensor ... but I was of the opinion that they're not part of the "mesh".

Ok, so the new theory is that the Zooz signal isn't very strong for some reason, since adding a repeater 7' away in the same room is resolving some problems. Potentially the issue is the fact they're installed in electrical boxes that are made of metal, which is a very surprising limitation if true. Adding these Zooz devices was intended to eliminate random repeaters plugged in everywhere; apparently not so much. I'd probably sooner just sell these switches and buy something better than go back to repeaters installed everywhere.

New plan: I am going to pull the switches out of the wall and see if that fixes anything (aka: eliminating the boxes as interference), which would confirm the "weak signal" postulate. If it does, then I will consider replacing the boxes with plastic ones (a huge pain, since the wires are nailed to the joists, and the boxes are nailed / plastered into place), or replacing the switches with higher strength devices.

Thanks for all the insight everyone, seems like I'll need to do some more research.

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Are all of your boxes metal?

This will have a big impact on signal strength for all wireless protocols not just z-wave.

This is the stuff of my nightmares. I'd sooner replace the switches. I'm so terrible at plastering.

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Yes, all metal. I guess I assumed that was OK, as that's the vast majority of device boxes, and this is literally the first time I'm reading this is an issue.

I'd have been cool with a little antenna even :).

This has been a problem with my Insteon switches. Not many left in my house, but the ones that were not working via the power line mesh wouldn't work reliably via their radio at all.

[Edit] I don't know about you @ChubChub, but my house was built in 1926, so the electrical boxes that I have not replaced are very thick metal.

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I'm not familiar with Canadian building practices but in the US the vast majority of electrical boxes are plastic. There are some metal but mostly from really old houses with specific needs or commercial buildings. I have an 80's house and I have only 2 metal boxes in the whole house the rest are old plastic fiber glass type boxes... probably killing myself with asbestos ripping them out :slight_smile:

You might want to check your boxes as you may find not all of them are metal? I dunno... if you find some that aren't metal especially outlets those could be prime for z-wave outlets.

Alternative would be Insteon. Hubitat doesn't have native support for Insteon but it's a dual band (powerline and RF) so the metal boxes won't matter if you have good powerline signal.

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Some devices have antenna's arranged more to the front of the device. You'd have to get details from Zooz calling @agnes.zooz about their antenna placement because I don't know.

Alternative (as I looked down in my office) would be power strips. Everyone has and uses power strips for things. Could possibly replace existing strips with z-wave power strips? I agree with the not wanting lots of plugs in the walls all over for repeaters but sometimes it's necessary and you can generally hide them behind things easy enough and plugs serve double duty.

The new Aeotec Range Extender 7 is built with the 700 series chip. Not sure how much better range you'll actually get from it but it might be worth trying. I don't know yet as mine hasn't arrived yet.

I'm not seeing them in Canada yet. Would have to import. Not sure how that would go right now. :mask:

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@ChubChub Hit up @mrstanley. Sounds like he has a lot of Insteon stuff he might like to sell.

My house was built in 1969-1970: all metal boxes for sure, as I replaced all the old style plugs with new style when I bought the place. Well, excluding the one in the cellar that was obviously added a few years before I bought the house. My dad's place 1975: all metal. My sister's place, built in 2000: all metal. Maybe it IS a Canadian thing? If you go to Home Depot up here, the lion's share of those switch/outlet boxes are metal, but maybe that's just me selectively seeing what I want to? It's possible.

Regardless, if the metal box is causing the issues, I guess I'll either have to buy switches without this limitation (the new versions of my switches are only $25, so not too bad), or spend the many hrs/device fixing the boxes (Z1, in my pic, is a 3 gang, and I need to get back in there to fix something anyways ... might as well spend 2 hours replacing the box) ... maybe in another 3 years ;).

I will wait on @agnes.zooz to see if there is any feedback on the new versions of these switches greatly mitigating/resolving this issue.

FYI - I'm gathering up a lot of stuff I'm going to be selling soon as well. :smile:

This actually explains a lot.... this would be why the vast majority of Insteon users on the ISY forum are all in Canada.... hmmm.

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Yes! Second day in a row. No reboot. Tested from 2:10am to 2:40am. All normal speed from 2;30am on. Around a 1 second or less delay before 2:30am. I have not had this stability for a long time. Probably not long after I decided to use the Aeon HEM in that way with a 1 second polling. :crazy_face: I was warned, but it's now working fine on the other hub with the other HEM. :+1:

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