Zwave Inclusion

I am trying to add two new Zwave devices to my network
the first is a GE plug it joined network just fine the second is a ZooZ in wall switch zen 24 I believe it is the furthest device from my hub but less then 15 feet from the GE Plug.

I cant get it connected

doesn't show up for inclusion
doesn't show up for exclusion

So my questions

Does Zwave inclusion work through repeaters?
If so does the Mesh need time to establish itself?

and yes I am following the instructions. :0 but suggestions are welcome

I really don't want to get a long AN cable and move my hub to the device.....

Thanks in advance

I've found one of these to be useful:

Screen Shot 2020-05-25 at 8.33.19 AM

Dangerous, but useful. I've wired many a new dimmer/switch with this to speed the inclusion, especially when Exclusion was needed first.

No long Ethernet wire required :smiley:

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The answer to this question is... "It depends."

If you're old GE plug is an earlier Z-Wave (i.e. not Z-Wave Plus), then it may not support NWI (network wide inclusion).

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I'm no z-wave expert, so I'm tagging @bcopeland and @JasonJoel to correct my errors.

  1. Network-wide inclusion was not supported by z-wave. It is optionally supported by z-wave+ (500 series).
  2. If your repeaters are mostly z-wave and not z-wave+, NWI will probably not work.
  3. If your mesh is entirely z-wave+, then in theory, it should use explorer frames to re-establish itself. Practically speaking, I find that running a z-wave repair every month keeps my mixed z-wave/z-wave+ network functioning well as measured by device response time.
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but that means taking it back out of the wall... :frowning:

also how do you know load line and what do you do for neutral (think about the 3 other switches I want to install :slight_smile:

To include a switch you don't need load connected (only line and neutral). When I moved all my devices to Hubitat, I used an 2-prong extension cord like @csteele suggested.

The conductor connected to the fatter blade/prong is the neutral. The other conductor is line.

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Yes, it does mean taking it out of the wall, but it's an alternate for you in case you don't have a long ethernet cable handy.

Standard 'zip cord' has a 'ribbed edge' running it's length.. that's Neutral. Feel for that ribbed edge and use that bare end as Neutral on the switch/dimmer.

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Nice to know. I ran a black sharpie on one conductor all the way from the prong to the end of the conductor to distinguish line/neutral.

Did you run your finger around the cord?? Were you able to feel the ribbing? I was told about that in high school -- which was back in the previous century... and the cord I have.. sitting literally 4" past the end of my elbow, has it.

It was implied that it's a universal feature for two conductor 'zip cord' (lamp cord).

I don't remember - it was so long ago. But you can bet I'm pulling the cord out to feel it when I get home from work tonight!

For a temporary hookup, with no LOAD attached, it doesn't matter which lamp cord wire is attached to LINE and NEUTRAL. It's AC, so it'll work either way. I have a very similar lamp cord in my home automation pile of stuff as well!

For an in-wall installation with a LOAD connected, it definitely make a difference.

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Of course!! Dang, I completely forgot that .... (and this time I can't blame age ....)

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the plug I have is this one

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B004AMB3CI/

there is a gen 1 zooz zen-24 paddle switch as well on the network

still no joy :frowning:

You may wish to run a z-wave repair. It should be quick. Then wait another 10 minutes or so before trying to add the switch once again without moving the switch or hub.

Unfortunately, the reality is that it is a very small mesh at this time (hub + 2 devices). You will probably have to bring the hub to the switch (or vice-versa).

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I'll try the repair

I just realized I have a wifi mesh node in the garage and the light switch controls garage lights so if repair doesn't work I'll move the hubitat into the garage and do the include and bring it back after Ip is forced in the router so I should be good....

btw all of my devices are zwave+

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Ok moving the hub to the garage worked device is paired. Hub back where it belongs and all is good. On to the motion sensor :slight_smile:will pair that in the room with hub first :slight_smile:

thanks everyone

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For the memory challenged, like myself, a standard 3 prong power supply cable, that for some reason I find laying every place might be a safer option. These cables typically (for US use) have black, white and green wires, so its easy to identify which wire is which for hot (black) /common(white) and green (ground).

S.

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IMG_1613

Here's my rig. It was made from parts in my wiring junk box and some scrap wood. The cord is from an old shop-vac. I plug a desk lamp into the outlet to test everything. It's not fancy or pretty but it works. I recently used it to flash the firmware in a few new Zooz Zen 26s (open box so I didn't expect the latest firmware).

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Hit or miss on the older devices.. some supported NWI some didn’t.. but generally the older they are the less likely they are to support NWI

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Nice I think I have all those parts somewhere...