ZEN17 + garage door woes

🛎️ Get Help Devices
, ,
1

I'm certain I'm doing something wrong here, which is a little embarrassing since I'm pretty technical, but whatever :wink:

I have two ZEN17s to control our 4 garage doors, I've added them with SmartStart (not using LR, just Mesh) and when I go to adjust the settings (to set the S1/S2 to "7 -Contact" and to decouple the R1/R2 triggers), it says I need to power cycle the device to get the setting to stick... which it doesn't seem to do.

I realize it ALSO says the 800LR (which I have) needs to be "excluded/included" -- but this is where things seem to get weird/tricky for me. Since I added these as SmartStart, what is the precise proper way to "exclude/include" a device?
I tried this:

1 - disable the SmartStart for the device
2 - do a Z-wave exclude (does it matter where I do this from? from "add device"? from Z-Wave Details?) and then triple-click the ZEN17 button (device disappears from list)
3 - remove power from ZEN17
4 - re-enable SmartStart for device
5 - power on ZEN17

...but it never comes back. It shows a status of "Not included" and "pending" for the node in SmartStart Manager View. Should I be doing a "normal" Z-Wave include on this (not SmartStart?)

I am not sure if this created a "ghost node" or not, but I can't seem to ever do anything on the Z-Wave details page unless/until I do a hard/cold boot, which is highly frustrating. (Is there some reason the Z-Wave radio can't be cold-booted via software, btw?)

I managed to get things working on ONE of the two ZEN17s, even though I didn't think I had done anything differently. One just always showed "18 pending updates" so I figured I needed to do the exclude/include.
However, my next issue is the Contact sensor (hardwire-connected to a magnetic reed switch) always was reading "closed" even when open - not sure if I need to set the Sensor ports to mode "7" like I have them, or to mode "11" which claims it's "Relay=Garage Door / Switch = Contact" which honestly seems like a more-correct setting, but that's not what the guides show.

ANYWAY - I guess my main questions are:

  • What am I doing wrong w/ the exclude/include
  • What settings should I be using on the ZEN17 to get it to see the physical contact sensors properly?

Oh... and my ZEN17s don't seem to obey the "factory reset" command. WHen I click the button 4x it will blink once, and then I'm supposed to click it 4x again but instead of blinking 3x and then on for 2s and then off, it just blinks twice. Both of my ZEN17s do this, so I'm not sure what's going on. I did manage to factory reset one of them - I think - after hitting the button a bunch of times randomly.

Any advice/guidance would be appreciated :slight_smile:

2

Some quick additional info:

HUB: C-8, v2.3.9.200
ZEN17 is the 800LR (purchased from AMZN):

  • deviceId: 40970
  • deviceModel: ZEN17
  • deviceType: 28672
  • firmwareVersion: 2.00
  • hardwareVersion: 2
  • inClusters: 0x5E,0x9F,0x55,0x6C
  • manufacturer: 634
  • protocolVersion: 7.19
  • S2: 3

Using the "Advanced" ZEN17 driver

3

I'll defer to Jeff about steps re: Smart Start stuff, but I can relate to these being headachy to get going... I've used numerous generations of Z16s & 17s over the years for my GDO , and the 800LR Z17s were hands-down the most painful to get up.

The good news is that once up & running, they are fantastic. I use 2 out in my garage and I installed them right when the 800 version was released -- I haven't had a single issue with them since then, but man, those installs were a doozy... This was all further compliacted by the fact that that timing was right about when Hubitat enabled LR, so dealing with 800LR stuff (and SmartStart in earnest) was new for all of us -- the initial learning curve was steep! :sweat_smile:

I can definitely confirm that you do just want to use "7" for the reed sensors. And it did take me numerous rounds of includes/excludes, power cycles, and door cycles to finally get everything to register properly.

I admit I was just mashing through all variations of all those things (while swearing a lot & loudly -- thank goodness the garage is detached!) until it finally just worked. I somehow avoided getting a ghost in all that madness, but I was pairing LR, so perhaps that helped.

I'm pretty sure Jeff will be able to give a better plan of attack than my commiseration of "keep hammering", so hang in there!

1 Like
4

Open logs in a new tab.
Exclude and wait. That's it.

If you factory reset the device you will have to start over by including, changing settings, and excluding/including again. An exclude does not wipe the settings but a factory reset does.

Setting 7 is correct. You could also use setting 11 which basically just forces the relay to have an auto-off (momentary like a button press). You can get the same thing with 7 by have a 1-2 second auto-off.

BTW I have done this many times with my ZEN17 800LR testing the driver, did not have any issues with it :person_shrugging:

Sounds like maybe your z-wave mesh/radio is hosed up with garbage and struggling to function.

1 Like
5

Hmm, can you elaborate on the radio being hozed up with garbage?

I only have like 20 or so devices, and looking at the Zwave Details, I see 4 nodes that don't show an associated device (just says "Discover"). Should I remove these? (These are the ones that don't seem to want to get removed unless I do a cold/hard boot)

I'll give the device another try and re-joining while watching the logs. To be pedantic: does it matter where I do the exclude from (from "Add Device" or from the Z-wave details page, or...?) ? I assume I jsut start zwave exclude and hit the ZEN17 button 3x like "normal"?

I can't seem to get the factory reset to work properly in the first place, so I guess that's "good" (heh)

Thanks!

6

Yes those are ghost nodes, probably from failed pairings. Sometimes they cause major problems for some reason, other times they are harmless. How To: Remove Ghosts using hub tools or a UZB Stick

No does not matter, either way the device and node should both be removed. I prefer to just do it from the z-wave details page, I feel like I have more control. The "Remove" button from the device page is more like a wizard that walks you through it. The device page will however warn you if your device is still connected to apps.

Usually when I exclude something that is in SS already, I will see a SmartStart join message in the logs within 30 seconds of the exclude happening, then device pairs 30-60 seconds later. I have done it at least 30 times if not more, with the ZEN16/17 and also some motion sensors. All for driver testing.

1 Like
7

Thanks for the info and pointers! I'll give things a whirl again (but probably not until tomorrow).

8

I'm not sure what to make of this error...

image
image778×65 10 KB

two of the ghost nodes were removed just fine, then these two give me this error. I even tried doing a cold/hard boot and they still do this.

Does this mean I need to use the UZB stick method to remove them? (This error message seems so weird to me - if the node is not in the list, why is it showing up? :wink: )

9

Uh, heh... so I decided to look at the Zwave network Graph... why is there a connection looping back to my hub?

image
image506×606 21.5 KB

EDIT: I did a reboot (just an normal warm boot) and the loop is gone. Still seems weird...

10

My ZEN16 works well with my garage doors. Infrequently, I have to power-cycle it to restore function. What would be the advantage, if any, of upgrading to the ZEN17?

@taner , ALL of us have had our ghost node struggles. Managing them within HE seems to be getting better. Hang in there!

1 Like
11

For me, nothing. I have a three car garage: ZEN16 has 3 relays and the ZEN17 has 2. Amazon is now selling an 800LR equipped ZEN16. The Smartest House is lagging (inventory reduction?).

12

I was just browsing and saw this:
https://www.support.getzooz.com/kb/article/1104-zen16-vs-zen17-what-s-the-difference/

13

The "node is no longer in failed node list" error (when the node is obviously not there) we think is a bug in the ZIP Gateway from SiLabs. It seems to happen most often when the node you want to remove still is showing a lot of neighbors. Sometimes if you wait a while the neighbors will go down through normal mesh healing and you can remove it, but sometimes it gets stuck and a stick is the only way currently.

No one knows what causes that loop on that graph, but it should be safe to ignore. Happens on Zigbee sometimes too.

1 Like
14

When adding nodes, I’ve found it’s best to check the zwave settings page after every single inclusion attempt. If you notice the inclusion failed, it’s much easier to remove the ghost right away… typically a simple exclusion will get rid of it at that point. Once you have multiple ghosts for the same device, it seemingly becomes more of a wait, try, wait and retry game.

3 Likes
15

Also if u are not pairing in lr mode you may have to power up and pair the device closer to the hub then move to final location( and probably do a repair) the garage.is usually at the far limit of your mesh. You could also try adding a awitch or repeater in the garage.

This is the only way ingot my zen16 to pair successfully.

16

The first version of the Z16 (which had been around for a long time) did not allow decoupling of the R and S terminals, so that was (IMO) the biggest difference the Z17 had when it first released. There are some other differences too, but I'd contend they're a bit more niche. Z16 v2.0 and v3.0 now offer that decoupling, just like all versions of the Z17.

But with the latest versiosn of each, now it really just boils down to whether or not you need 3 Rs or Ss (or just 2), and perhaps one of the more niche capabilities the Z17 has with its S options.

1 Like
17

I just wanted to close the loop on this situation (for me, at least).

I was able to get my ZEN17s added, but the sensors kept always reading "closed".

I went back to this thread, specifically this post and followed these steps more closely -- the key being power cycling the ZEN17 BETWEEN the exclude-include -- and it worked!!

So to recap, I did this:

  • Add ZEN17 to SmartStart, power it on and let it get added
  • Configure ZEN17 params 2,3 to "7 - Contact Sensor"
  • Click "Save Preferences"
  • Go into SmartStart and "disable" SS for the ZEN17
  • EXCLUDE the ZEN17
  • Pull the power to the ZEN17
  • Go into SmartStart and "enable" SS for the ZEN17
  • Power on the ZEN17, watch it re-add
  • Go to the Device
  • Ensure params 2,3 are still set to "7 - Contact Sensor"
  • Select "Clean up sensor child devices" (might not be needed, but I did this)
  • Click "Save Preferences"

TA-DA!

TO be fair, for one of my ZEN17s I had to do the exclude-powercycle-include steps 2x, but that might have been my fault for not doing it properly the first time, I don't recall.

But the sensors work great now:

image
image710×122 19.9 KB

Thanks @jtp10181 and others for all the help and pointers! (And thanks again @jtp10181 for the Advanced Driver in the first place :slight_smile: )

2 Likes