My Z-Wave device routing on the C7 also looks random. Some devices take a straight/logical step to the hub, while other devices, located on the main floor to the hub go out there way to connect to a basement Z-Wave bulb or water turn off valve to get to the C7 hub back on the main floor.
So, I do support the, "If if ain't broke... don't network repair it" and never include any S0/S2 Z-Wave devices (unless it is a lock) on the C7. Either move these devices that want to join S0/S2 to a C5 hub or use a UZB stick as a secondary hub to get it included to the C7 with 'No Security'.
Just my 2 cents, and my C7 hub is hanging in there with all these devices, although I do have rebooter app running 4 times a week at 1am just to keep the C7 and Z-Wave radio optimal.
So on the C7 what security should I use? The general consensus is that it's best to set it to none - I'm fine with doing that and I'm able to do that on all of the devices. But what about the few devices where there should be security - these will be the Garage Door (Fibaro Roller Shutter 3) and a Fibaro Smart Implant that will integrate with my alarm system to set/unset and report that set/unset status. Both of those devices are Z Wave Plus - which security should I choose when presented with all of the options at the time of inclusion? Thanks.
Security None (all boxes unchecked) has the best performance (and obviously the worst security). Security 0 (only the bottom option selected) has both worse performance and the worst level of security, so consensus is that it should be avoided.
General consensus seems to be to either accept the default (which varies by device), or uncheck everything (if you assess the security for a device is not needed). Note that for many S2 devices, the default is S2 authenticated, which will require the DSK from the device.
I've not had chance to exclude/include the Fibaro Dimmer 2's which have the S0 security but leaving it overnight things have changed a bit:
01 > 11 > 0F > 10 > 16 is now 01 > 10 > 16 - 2 hops lower (Lounge Lamp)
01 > 10 > 08 > 15 is now 01 > 12 > 15 - 1 hop lower (Drive Lights)
01 > 0D > 14 is now 01 > 14 now direct (Stair Lights)
01 > 11 > 12 > 10 is now 01 > 10 now direct (Lounge Lights)
01 > 0C is now 01 > 10 > 08 > 0C - no longer direct, 2 additional hops (Bedroom Curtain)
So with the exception of the last item everything is the same or better. I'll sort the security and see if things improve further.
It appears that the devices with the fewest neighbours are all of the Neo Coolcam Power Outlets despite their positioning. I'm wondering if these are just crap and should be returned. They were £32 each so quite a bit cheaper than a Fibaro or Aeotec equivalent but the saving isn't worth it if they're not going to work well. Is there a big performance difference between devices? These were installed to replace Zigbee outlets as I'd thought I'd simplify my setup and improve the mesh at the same time but now I'm not so sure.
Thanks for everyones comments and help - it's much appreciated.
Another thought. After exclusion and inclusion, the device is automatically assigned a new address. Am I ok to manually assign the previous address back to it as I assume otherwise I'll need to redo any rules that included the device.
Edit: I just learned the hard way that doesn't play out well and had to exclude and re include it yet again. It's a bit of a PITA as every time I do an exclude/include I'll have to find all the rules where the original device was referenced and edit my SharpTools dash to put the "new" device in place.
I didn’t say they wouldn’t work fully as repeaters. However, I believe that Denny Page (@dennypage), who wrote the excellent community driver for the Aeotec RE7, has reported that they won’t do all the added features (power level test, range test, etc.) he provided in his driver unless they are paired securely. I have 2 of them.
Bryan Copeland (@bcopeland) has reported that the Ring Range Extender Gen 2 (I have 6) won’t do power fail reporting unless paired securely. I tested long ago when I got my first one, and my results matched what he reported, so I have always paired mine S2, and they are full-featured.
Good to know @672southmain ... those extra features you pointed out above seem like device tests or settings with the user developed driver. I was just reporting that, in my experience, on the C7 using the internal 'Generic Z-Wave Repeater' driver, these Aeotec range extender 7's are working for my network and devices as 'repeaters' with no security. They might work also, without issue with S0 security, but I was not going to test that on my C7.
I understand that S0 security is that devices preferred security inclusion on 700 series Z-Wave radios, but I have been fighting network mesh issues on Z-Wave devices that are included with S0. I have taken the friendly advice of other community forum members stating that including S0 devices with a UZB stick is preferred when one is seeing network mesh issues.
May I make a small request (if it hasn't been brought up before)? On the inclusion pop-up window can you add an option for 'no security'? When the box pops-up it can implied that at least one of the boxes should be checked. I've read a few times that newbies select S0 due to 'no other option'. For a very minor effort (I would assume) if there was a dedicated 'no security' check box (that could even uncheck and grey out the others) I think that may help.
I've managed to switch 3 of the 4 devices back to no security but what a complete ball ache and I'm struggling with the last one. I'm successfully excluding it, factory resetting it and including it but most of the time it is discovered as "Device" and I don't get the security pop up enabling me to deselect the options - this results in an S0 inclusion. If it is discovered as "Fibaro Dimmer" although I still don't get the security popup - this results in a no security inclusion which is what I want.
It's not possible to get the security pop up unless I disconnect the wiring, connect it to a temporary lead and include while right next to the hub - not exactly straightforward. This goes against the documentation on this site which instructs you to "include devices starting with the nearest to the hub working outover"
I guess, but that is 100% counter to how the zwave alliance wants users pairing devices. They WANT users pairing w/S2 security by default - that change was on purpose. It is their stance that there is zero downside to S2 vs unsecure, so they want all users using S2.
I don't see them changing that, or their stance, any time soon.
Now... I will say that forcing S0 in the 7.x release royally ticks me off. Maybe that one will regress if the voting members of the alliance complain enough.
Ok no matter what I do I cannot get a device to bring up the security popup when pairing. I've now excluded, factory reset and included the device around 15 times. I've removed it from the switch and plugged it in on a lead at the hub and tried but still no difference. The device is discovered and added as S0 without any option to change that. This is one of four devices that are all the same model and version.
How do I get the popup to appear during inclusion? I've tried via the hubs webpage and using the app - nothing.
Try shutting down the hub, then pull power from the hub at the wall when the hub shows the red LED, and then power up and try again. Sometimes that helps w/these behaviors...
(Bedroom Curtain)
