Z-Wave Details - Failed Device has me stumped

Shortly after migrating my Z-Wave Devices to the C7 hub I noticed a failed Z-Wave Device in the Z-Wave Details tab.

The thing is, I'm not aware of any failed devices and have check to all my Z-Wave devices are working.

So I've tried everything to remove this entry without any luck. Hubitat Support wasn't able to help and recommended I reach out to the community.

Any ideas?

Thanks, Glenn

It's often left over from a device that later paired successfully. Look at the device(s) in the list just after it and it may represent one of them.

The Remove option cannot remove these "ghosts" unless you remove power from the device that they were originally linked to ...so you can try removing power from the devices following this entry (flip a circuit usually) and then try the Remove button.

This type of entry also looks like a device that didn't complete joining and could be recovered via Discover and/or Refresh. But if you're really sure that your devices are all working, and Discover/Refresh don't help, then removing it is going to be necessary.

I assume you've tried the easy things...Reboot hub, Shutdown hub, remove power for 30s, then reboot?

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I've had similar occurrences moving to C7. In my case they disappeared over night.

Doesn't sound like he's been as lucky... :slight_smile:

Haven't tried that yet.

And the crowd chants "Shut Down-Unplug, Shut Down-Unplug, Shut Down-Unplug, Shut Down-Unplug..." :wink:

Unfortunately, shutting down, unplugging and waiting for a few minutes didn't help. After boot, this is what I'm seeing.

If I hit Refresh, it comes back like this.

and then back to this.

When you had the Remove button showing, did you use it?

Keep hitting Refresh or Discover until you get the Remove button, and when it shows up start clicking on it, likely will take multiple tries.

As I said above:

The Remove option cannot remove these "ghosts" unless you remove power from the device that they were originally linked to ...so you can try removing power from the devices following this entry (flip a circuit usually) and then try the Remove button.

So if the device was later successfully joined and has power you can't remove its older ghost entry. Devices are listed in the Z-Wave Details page in the order they joined the hub, so most likely the device that the ghost came from is one of the ones immediately following the ghost entry. I'd turn off power to the next three or four devices (flip a circuit) and then try Refresh repeatedly and when the Remove button shows up start banging on that.

Tried Remove several times with no luck.

Every physical Z-Wave device in my home is connected to the hub and working. Are you thinking this "ghost" entry is related to one of the working devices?

Exactly, that is where they often come from...that's why you look at your Z-Wave Details list, and be suspicious about devices that were joined after or shortly after the ghost. Those are usually the most likely suspects.

Turn the switches off (if they have an Air Gap like GE switches you can pull that to kill power) usually via flipping some breakers, and then try the Remove option. As long as the hub can ping a device it won't remove the ghost of that device.

Tried airgab on all the switches that had them, then tried to remove but no luck yet.

Be nice if Hubitat support would be of some support. They actually have some tools to see what's going on.

Tagging @bobbyD to see if he can help, or bring help.

In the near term, then all of the devices that you've airgapped are most likely not it. Hopefully you tried the Remove button repeatedly - it never worked for me right away.

So it's likely the device/culprit is one of the others you can't easily turn off. My recommendation is find a time when family won't be in an uproar and hit some circuit breakers (make sure your hub has power!) and try w/the Remove again. That's the best advice I can offer at this point.

I've found my Z-Wave mesh/system/whatever gets cranky when disturbed/changed. As I mentioned above, mine went away after a day or so. It seems you're not so lucky.

I would suggest you close all your airgaps and enable any devices you unplugged / removed batteries from etc.

Then go into the Settings/Z-Wave and compare the 1st or 5th column with the devices you have. With my system all devices were accounted for. So the remaining entries with no in: or out: are not real devices. I would close that page and ignore the entries. My guess is if you come back in a week or so they will be gone. If your a little OCD like I am it takes will power to do this but I've found it to be the best way.

Yes, pulling the air gap tab removes power from the load. Does it also remove power from the Z-Wave radio? I havenโ€™t done that experiment, and the documentation isnโ€™t clear to me on this point:

Air Gap Switch โ€” pull the air gap switch out to disconnect the power. Push it all the way back in for normal operation.

Working backwards from what I've read here, pulling the air gap is sufficient to allow removal, so the hub must not be able to contact the device, so Z-Wave must be turned off at that point.

I'm feeling a little bit like Sherlock at the moment... :wink:

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Thanks, Sherlock. All of my GE/Jasco 26931 and 26933 Smart Motion Switches/Dimmers have paired first try, NWI, so they have never caused a ghost node, and so Iโ€™ve never had to use this trick. Nice to know in case it ever happens.

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I like my GE/Honeywell switches as well...trouble-free.

Exactly :sweat_smile:

Most of my wall switches are Jasco/GE but, Zooz and a few v1 Inovelli.

Have a bunch of switches (non dimmers) which don't appear to have airgaps. I'll have to figure out how to remove power from those without loosing access to the hub.

I went as far as powering down my home with the exception of the LAN and Hubitat Hub. Then tried Remove, Refresh, Repair, Discover, Shutdown, Power Down and Power Up several times in various combinations but the ghost device still persists.

The only response from Hubitat Support was they would have engineering look into it.