Hi there.
I have another post talking about sensors but thought I'd ask separately to not distract the topic.
I know nothing about this so apologies for the noobness. Will adding a few Ikea plugs make a mesh that will be stable or will other devices still take over and cause problems (e.g. Hue bulbs)?
Thanks
Alan
I have 40 Sylvania zigbee rgbw bulbs and 42 non-repeating zigbee devices (my Hue lights are on the Hue bridge, so they don’t count). I don’t think that the bulbs have any ram for a buffer, so if too many events happen at once, they can’t store them in a buffer to be sent, so they get dropped. I have added zigbee plugs a couple at a time until I reached the number where everything works perfectly 99% of the time. For me the number was 13. Ymmv. If I had to do it again, I would buy another hub for upstairs and link them with Hubconnect. For the money this is a no brainer. It can support 32 devices by itself and you get the extra processing power if you want to put cpu intensive apps on like echo speaks or NST Manager. I hope this helps answer your question.
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Thanks
To add to the above, the answer is at least "possibly" and likely "yes." You have no way to control Zigbee routing; it is automatically reevaluated (how often likely depends on the device but that's beyond me) and algorithmically chosen.
The safest options are to not use routing Zigbee bulbs (all I know of except Sengled are) or to segregate them to a separate network. Repeaters only repeat for their own network, so Hue bulbs will be fine on a Hue Bridge network (a fantastic product and easily integrated over the LAN to Hubitat) or a separate Hubitat hub (a bit more work but not too bad, though if you only have Hue I'd still recommended the Bridge for ease of use and easier/better support for some features like "true" scenes).
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I have bad bulbs but I built my mesh by adding the plug repeaters first. The plugged in repeaters are the preferred route for me.
I check the http://192.xxx.xxx.xxx/hub/zigbee/getChildAndRouteInfo
And rarely see anything but my battery and lights going through the repeaters.
I have one to two repeaters per room. I didn't plan it like that but they control other devices.
I have a hue bridge so that should help there. I was planning on any future purchases not being hue to save money but I'll maybe try keep them hue now. I didn't know that you could keep the networks separate.
I'll probably need a few more zigbee plugs then to get the mesh to cover the house
Hey @Ken_Fraleigh, I wanted to be sure I'm reading this right before I make an unnecessary buy.
Are you saying, if you had to do it again, you'd do away with adding ZigBee plugs to strengthen your ZigBee mesh and simply get another HE hub and link two HE hubs together using HubConnect?
While I can't speak for @Ken_Fraleigh, I know I would always have some Zigbee outlets as repeaters for my non-bulb Zigbee mesh networks. All battery-powered devices (motion sensors, contact sensors, leak sensors, button controllers, etc...) will benefit from some decent Zigbee repeater devices. Also, this will increase the number of Zigbee devices the Hub can communicate with. (Note: Sengled bulbs are fine on a Zigbee HA network as they are not Zigbee repeaters by design.)
For repeating Zigbee bulbs... adding a second HE hub or Hue bridge (if the bulbs are compatible) will create a second Zigbee LL mesh network, where these bulbs will do no hard to the Zigbee HA1.2 network. Most Zigbee Bulbs (except Sengled) will repeat (Zigbee LL) for each other without causing any problems. They just make lousy Zigbee HA repeaters.
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Yes, that is what I was saying (before I bought a second hub btw). I will add that in my situation adding more repeaters didn't really fix my issues. If you have devices that just don't behave well, repeaters may mask it, maybe fool you for a little while, but will not fix the issue. Removing the offending devices will fix it, which meant throwing the Peanut plugs in the drawer (behave worse than old Lightify bulbs). When I first set up my second hub I put about 30 of my end devices on it and nothing else for a couple days. I had been having issues with 9 Lightify 4-button switches becoming lost, and needing multiple button presses to reconnect and then send the commands. By doing this, I found out that the Lightify switches, and other end devices, were now working perfectly. Long story short; Peanut plugs will drop sleepy end devices like they're hot, and cause continuous routing table changes. Meanwhile, Samsung (2018) plugs are repeating for at least 10 devices without issue, and I can look at the routing table days later and see them still repeating for the same devices (stable). I found a second hub to be my solution, but I still have 4 Samsung plugs on my hub with end devices. I have about 65 end devices and have not had to rejoin a single one since adding the second hub in December.
On my Bulbs hub I have 55 Sylvania (all newer Ledvance updated with latest firmware) that repeat, 5 GE Zigbee in-wall dimmers that also repeat, and no other repeaters. I haven't had any of the devices lose their connection on this hub either.
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Especially when it comes to battery life. Repeaters will pay for themselves in not having to replace batteries as often. From what I have read, end devices can adjust their output power to some extent.
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That was great info and a lot to digest...thanks @ogiewon & @Ken_Fraleigh
I have:
Hub
- 1 HE hub
ZigBee
- 29 Osram Lightify RGBW bulbs
- 1 ceiling fan (model: HDC52EastwindFan) - trying to figure out what ZigBee channels it can operate on if anyone knows….it’s not responding.
- 1 Philips Hue Hub (used for the 14 Hue bulbs)
- 14 Hue Bulbs
Z-Wave
- 3 Dome motion sensors
- 2 Dome door/window sensors
- 2 Zooz 4-in-1 sensors
- 2 Aeotec Range Extender 6, Z-Wave Plus repeater (not installed yet)
So, those are my devices.
That maybe my issue with the bulbs not behaving well sometimes.
Sadly, the Osram Lightify bulbs are a couple years old and the firmware hasn’t been updated…I don’t have a gateway.
- Is there a way to find which firmware the Lightify bulbs are using?
- Is there a way to update the bulbs without a Lightify gateway?
Maybe I need to switch to Hue… eeek...29 x $50
Are these the plugs [link] you have @Ken_Fraleigh?
p.s. here's my table:
Parent child parameters
EzspGetParentChildParametersResponse [childCount=0, parentEui64=0000000000000000, parentNodeId=65535]
Child Data
Neighbor Table Entry
[LR 2, 0535], LQI:254, age:4, inCost:1, outCost:3
[Dining 3, 077A], LQI:254, age:3, inCost:1, outCost:3
[Dining 1, 1E9D], LQI:253, age:4, inCost:3, outCost:3
[Hall 1, 220D], LQI:254, age:3, inCost:1, outCost:3
[Entry 1, 23C3], LQI:252, age:3, inCost:3, outCost:7
[Closet, 47DE], LQI:254, age:4, inCost:1, outCost:7
[Balcony, 4E03], LQI:254, age:3, inCost:1, outCost:3
[Dining 2, 53C8], LQI:252, age:4, inCost:3, outCost:3
[K3, 5E64], LQI:252, age:4, inCost:3, outCost:7
[Entry 2, 724C], LQI:249, age:4, inCost:3, outCost:3
[LR 3, 7AC0], LQI:253, age:4, inCost:3, outCost:3
[Front Door, 9FEE], LQI:253, age:4, inCost:3, outCost:3
[Hall 2, AF95], LQI:253, age:4, inCost:3, outCost:7
[Office Closet, C18B], LQI:253, age:3, inCost:3, outCost:7
[K2, C78E], LQI:253, age:4, inCost:3, outCost:3
[LR 4, E55D], LQI:255, age:3, inCost:1, outCost:1
Route Table Entry
status:Active, age:64, routeRecordState:0, concentratorType:None, [K4, 872E] via [Balcony, 4E03]
status:Active, age:64, routeRecordState:0, concentratorType:None, [Closet, 47DE] via [Closet, 47DE]
status:Active, age:64, routeRecordState:0, concentratorType:None, [Entry 1, 23C3] via [Entry 1, 23C3]
status:Active, age:64, routeRecordState:0, concentratorType:None, [K3, 5E64] via [K3, 5E64]
status:Unused
status:Active, age:64, routeRecordState:0, concentratorType:None, [K1, 1E35] via [Entry 2, 724C]
status:Active, age:64, routeRecordState:0, concentratorType:None, [K2, C78E] via [K2, C78E]
status:Active, age:64, routeRecordState:0, concentratorType:None, [Hall 2, AF95] via [Hall 2, AF95]
status:Active, age:64, routeRecordState:0, concentratorType:None, [Office Closet, C18B] via [Office Closet, C18B]
status:Active, age:64, routeRecordState:0, concentratorType:None, [Balcony, 4E03] via [Balcony, 4E03]
status:Unused
status:Active, age:64, routeRecordState:0, concentratorType:None, [Hall 1, 220D] via [Hall 1, 220D]
status:Active, age:64, routeRecordState:0, concentratorType:None, [Dining 1, 1E9D] via [Dining 1, 1E9D]
status:Active, age:64, routeRecordState:0, concentratorType:None, [Dining 2, 53C8] via [Dining 2, 53C8]
status:Active, age:64, routeRecordState:0, concentratorType:None, [Dining 3, 077A] via [Dining 3, 077A]
status:Unused
Yes, those are them.
If your bulbs say Osram on the side of the bulb, there is not likely an update (and they are the most problematic) If they say Smart+, then they are the newer ones and there is an update. You can buy a Lightify gateway cheap on Amazon and update them. Just reset each bulb (I just did 4 at a time), join it to the gateway, it will say an update is available, update the bulbs, remove from Lightify, then go to discover devices on HE and it will find them as previously joined devices.
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Bummer, but you can often get the recessed Smart+ for $8-$12 each, depending upon how many you buy. I have some recessed lights that are on all day long every day without having any problems. Of course YMMV. It appears that you don’t really have any end devices that are zigbee; Is that correct? If so, with so few devices it may be a good idea to try adding a couple repeaters. My problems were mostly limited to end devices getting dropped due to bad repeaters.
Interestingly, I have several Lightify MR16 12V bulbs, they're all a few years old and I think they are all the older versions with the Osram labeling. I bought a Lightify hub sometime last year in the hopes the bulbs would take a firmware update. They did not 
. But last month I decided to try again for some reason and, lo and behold, all six bulbs did update to a newer firmware version 
!
Has that made them anymore reliable? I'm not sure TBH, I moved them to their own hubitat hub at the same time and have no intention of putting them back into my main zigbee mesh!
@vitamin if you'd like, I can mail my Lightify gateway to you so you can try to update your bulbs. It's pretty simple, you would reset the bulbs (the most annoying part IMO), pair them to the Lightify gateway, see if the firmware updates, then when finished just reset again and pair them back to hubitat. Since they're zigbee devices they'll fall right back into place without the need to create new devices, re-do any automations, etc.
PM me if you're interested.
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Had to look that one up. 
That's true except my Hampton Bay fan which is a joke.... it dropped out again last night. ((
BUT, I ordered 3 of the Samsung plugs mentioned earlier in this thread; I'm hoping that helps as my ZibBee end devices (minus bulbs) begins to grow.
Honestly, the biggest issue I see thus far is some of my Osram Lightify bulbs in "Groups" don't respond when triggered.
I'm hoping Hue has a Memorial day weekend sale. Thus far, they've operated perfectly although, I now understand (read: "I think") their on their own LL (Light Link) mesh network because I'm using the Hue Hub for them.
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Damn man, that's a very nice gesture....thank you. I'm gonna see how things shake out this weekend but, I may take you up on it (I'll PM you if so). The thought of resetting 29 bulbs and dragging a ladder around doesn't sound that amazing albeit, doable.
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If color bulbs are not a requirement, you could migrate to Smart Switches/Dimmers with 'dumb' bulbs instead. It might be less expensive, although you may need an electrician...
Just another option! 
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Have you tried disabling “optimization” under the group. If the bulbs don’t always report the correct state, it would be better to have optimization disabled. It checks the state of bulbs and only sends an “on” to lights that are off, and vise versa.
Also, make sure your Hubitat’s Zigbee channel is different from your Hue’s channel. I’ve found channel’s 20 and 25 to be the best with the 2.4Ghz WiFi set to channel 1(best), or 6 if necessary.
If you search the forum for “Hampton Bay Fan”, I think I have seen others complaining about it as well. There may be some sort of solution.
Interesting. I'll deselect the options and see how it goes. I definitely have selected the option thinking it would benefit.
I'll do that too! Presently, both channels are on the default of 20.
I have Google WiFi and channels can't be manually set....sadly. I hope they're smart enough to find the best channel.
I have and have seen the complaints. I'm hoping the aforementioned plugs help out. :))
All of these little tips are fantastic bits and pieces of knowledge; I'm learning tons lately.
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