I don't need to be sold. I haven't had time to read up on Flow Logic in detail yet, but I'm pretty sure I am more price sensitive/less risk adverse.
Regarding pricing info for 2" valves, both Titan and Bulldog will do a 2" for from $250 (Titan) to $295 (Bulldog). That includes local wired sensor, battery backup, and extra-large adapters to support the larger valves.
Bulldog and Titan don't do any flow metering. However, I currently use Flume for that, and it has been very reliable for me, alerted me to leaks and excessive use, etc. I have never compared Flume to other flow meters/app companions so can't speak to better/worse overall.
IQ4 and Flologic do look like a high quality/high-end integrated systems overall. Flowlogic includes an app similar to the Flume app, but does more as it can both control the valve as well as monitor usage and report usage variances and potential leaks, etc.). Does look like a very nice system.
At this point I think I'm probably going to get the Bulldog...it fits into my general price range, looks like it will work w/my existing pipe/valve configuration w/out needing more plumbing modifications, looks reliable/well reviewed overall (for all that's worth), and provides the local sensor and battery backup I wanted to add to my setup. Still looking reading, though.
Sorry to turn on my work-brain ... but what exactly will the valve be achieving.... ? I'm sure it's second nature to those who already use them.... but doesn't hurt to spell it out... Now I can turn my work-brain off...
Good summary by AI overall...only significant correction I see w/AI's work that both Bulldog (and Titan, FWIW) support valves >1.5 inches via add-on kits that cost from $15 (Titan) to $30 (Bulldog). Other than that AI did alright.
Oh I think we can sell it better than that...
It's this:
You're in the Bahamas, relaxing on the beach w/your third coconut daquiri of the day, when you get a panicked call from your dogsitter "A WATER PIPE BROKE MR. SBURKE781, AND THERE'S A RIVER COMING OUT OF YOUR HOUSE!! OH, THE HORROR..."
VS this:
You're in the Bahamas, relaxing on the beach w/your third coconut daquiri of the day, when you get a Pushover from Hubitat "The water main valve was turned off due to a leak at the water heater leak sensor" You text your dogsitter to ask her to bring some bottled water to the house to fill your dog's water bowl, shedule a plumber for the day after you return, and hail the beach waiter for your fourth daiquiri.
I may regret asking this, but how does flow-based detection guard against false alarms? Example: We normally get up around 7 AM every day. But on one particular day, I have a rare 5 AM flight to catch. I set my alarm at 2:30 AM and, in a rush, jump in the shower first thing.
How does it know this rare, never seen before usage is not a leak? Or is the answer that you just need to pull up an app and tell it everything is OK? I would not have that on my list of things I want to worry about when trying to catch a flight.
I have both a Flume and a Phyn Plus installed on my main line (long story ), and both are good about alerting to any unusual activity, and both seem to have pretty darn impressive learning capability about the household's usage patterns.
I have the Flume set up to send a emergency-level Pushover alert on any water flow when Away (with a carve out for dishwasher and icemaker), but I don't have it automatically turn water off.
My Phyn is integrated via Home Asst, and I do now have both its Home and Away auto-shutoff capabilities enabled... IIRC, I think we had one instance where it actually triggered a shut-off -- I was watering the lawn and my wife jumped in a shower -- for us, that was a very rare coincidence of 2 high-draw events.
I was initially afraid that the Phyn's auto-shutoff would be too unpredictable, but so far so good.
I think it's all about how risk adverse you are...some of us may want that alert, some not. Key thing is being able to configure what alerts you get/thresholds, etc. If I was about to fly out of town I would be more likely to want to see an alert about a potential leak.
I have a Zooz Titan for about a year now. Works fine and seems well designed. There is plenty of torque to turn my 1" brass ball valve. The mounting arrangement for the motorized portion is rugged and well thought through. I think Zooz has done a good job on this product.
I use it a bit differently than most. When I am away from the home, sometimes for weeks and months, I shut the water off. I turn it on when my house watcher comes through to flush the toilets and run the sinks. Then off again once they leave. This way I don't have to react to leak with a sensor and a rule.
That's actually what my neighbor does. Since we have dogs that sometimes stay home w/sitter we have to leave the water on for some trips.
Other part is just being away from the home all day, or shorter trips, or forgetting to turn off the water. I'd always want the remote access notification/capability.
I take the position that one should consider having both flow based and sensor based detection. I will have both because I have experienced leaks at the common detection locations like toilets and leaks in pipes in walls.
Anything is better than nothing so it's about risk mitigation.
With flologic I'm still using sensors and a redundant sensor path. Secondary to flologic I'll have Flo and maybe Droplet. So, if I find one is stupid when it comes to flow based sensing I can rely on another by disabling the flow alerting on that device.
Based on my personal analysis using a really solid non smart valve plus another smart data collector like a Droplet may give a geeky DIY person the most entertainment and least cost.
For those who want to do a little plumbing work (or hire a plumber), the Sinopé looks really nice. Basic price is $249, but coming from Canada so beware tariffs...
), and both are good about alerting to any unusual activity, and both seem to have pretty darn impressive learning capability about the household's usage patterns.
