Thread Border Router

Wait, Apple is going to release an "All Terrian Vehicle"...., Sorry, just couldn't resist. :grinning:

Easiest way that I've found is to look at mDNS entries for "_meshcop...." - I use the "Discovery" app on various iThings to look at mDNS entries, but you can do this with command line entries in Win11 (or use Bonjour in earlier versions), and I believe "Flame" works on MacOS.

All this is detailed in the bottom of: https://www.derekseaman.com/2023/10/part-1-smart-home-matter-and-thread-deep-dive.html

As the meshcop services are the routers (I have two, one Apple HomePod and 1 GoogleHome Hub) - And look at the "nn=" records for the network names - and "tv=" records show the versions - Mine are both V1.3 (not surpising as next tvOS for Apple is supposed to update support to V1.4) - And the have different home network names - Also not surprising, since the bit to share credentials and collapse to a single network is all stuff released in V1.4. - I believe there are tools in HA, that allow you to manually share keys between EcoSystems.

That all said, having two (or more) separate networks isn't a huge problem, as long as you consistently initially provision devices on a single (and the same) network (Apple for me), then share a second code to HE. - I honestly don't use the Google hub for Matter, so it's independent network isn't really a problem (but I can see it, in mDNS) - Given your HW, you like have the same setup and networks. - Given the state of Matter V1.3, unless you've manually manipulated these networks in HA, then Google/Apple are going to likely be on different Matter network names

Then there is Echo/Amazon stuff which is just a mess, and still at matter V1.1
The bottom of this last thread, discuss matter versions and various EcoSystem states: https://www.derekseaman.com/2024/09/essential-tips-for-a-stable-matter-over-thread-network.html - This also speaks to not overdoing it with Multi-Admin, as matter supports up to 5 controllers, but the traffic increases 100% for each controller added (I have 2 controllers setup) - There is something to be said for Matter over WiFi if you have lots of Multi-Admin controllers.

Let me know if you need screenshots to better explain the above, but hopefully, that's enough to get you some basic visibility. - Can't wait for TBR's with Matter 1.4!

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I have (what I'm sure is!) a rookie/dumb follow-up question on this please...

Are those 2 or more networks all each on their own Thread channel (whether it's being "used" or not)?

My main concern about this whole current state (pre-1.4) of Thread is that these various Thread meshes are all just further garbaging up the (already busy) Thread/ZB/2.4-wifi spectrum.

And, heck, maybe that's happening to me right now and I don't even know it... I have Google and Apple TBR-capable devices (and maybe others too?) -- although I'm not actively using Thread right now, maybe those devices are already broadcasting their individual meshes (on their own/unique Thread channels). I'm planning to do some snooping this weekend.

Anyway, I'll feel much better about all of this Thread stuff when everything's on 1.4 :sweat_smile:

@GuyMan's response sums it up. This topic also came up a while ago and there is some good information at Is it finally time to embrace Matter? < Hint NOT! - #73 by jvm33. Basically, start at that post and scroll down.

I haven't had a chance to confirm Thread 1.4, but last time I used the Discovery app my 8 devices (2 Apple TVs, 3 Hub Maxes, and 3 Nest WiFi Pros) all were using the same Thread Network name (coincidentally it was created by Nest, but not surprisingly since I had them longer than the Apple TVs). The big thing at the time was everything being setup via an iPhone. Google devices via the Google Home app can share Thread credentials with iOS and keychain. I'm pretty sure that is the key right now.

Unless someone knows otherwise, I do not think the tools really exist to identify how this is happening with Thread. It's kind of a black box when it comes to troubleshooting. The one thing we do know is that having two separate thread networks greatly impacts battery devices in a negative manner. Basically, it causes faster battery drain since the device has to send multiple messages. Mains powered devices do not suffer from being connected to multiple controllers.

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Ok please folks let me be blunt, every time I hear someone say Hubitat is hard to work with I am going to blow my top. Hubitat is a walk in the park compared to what had to do to pair the Matter/Thread Aquara P2 to Home Assistant and share it with Hubitat. Buried in their forms is a little know secret that the app doesn't have the credentials to the Thread Border Router until you "sync" them and it's buried quite deep in system settings. Here is my write up on things I had to do to get the device paired:
6.

Step 1: Thread Border Router Setup

  • SLZB-07p7 detected as /dev/ttyUSB0 :white_check_mark:
  • Thread integration showing network ha-thread-5cbb :white_check_mark:

Step 2: Sync Thread Credentials (Critical Step!)

In Home Assistant Android app:

  1. Settings β†’ Companion App β†’ Troubleshooting
  2. Select "Sync Thread Credentials"
  3. This downloads the Thread network credentials to your phone

Step 3: Now You Can Commission Matter Devices

With Thread credentials synced to your phone:

  1. Add Matter integration in Home Assistant
  2. Use the phone app to scan QR codes and commission Matter devices
  3. The phone can now add devices to your Thread network

Step 4: Get share code code from Home Assistant and Add to Hubitat

  1. Go to devices in Devices and Services in the app
  2. Select the newly added device
  3. Select share and it will go into pairing mode and genereate a bar code and number
  4. Copy the number
  5. In Hubitat add device and select matter
  6. Put in code from Home Assistant and patiently wait
  7. Finalize by giving device name and room

This is my end result! :open_mouth:

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Great info, @GuyMan! It has been a while since I used the "Discovery" app on my iPhone to look at my Thread mesh networks. It appears that I have one Amazon Echo all alone still using Thread v1.1, which nothing attached to it. My other Thread mesh network consists of 4 devices (two Apple TV 4K's, one HomePod Mini, and an Aqara M3 hub) all reporting Thread v1.3. The only Thread device I have ever tried is an Arduino Nano Matter microcontroller. It was an early 'community preview' model, that was a little bit immature at the time. Perhaps now is a better time to take a look at it again, as things have most likely improved over the last year or two. I will probably force my Apple devices up to tvOS 26 and audioOS 26, as Apple has the Release Candidate available in the Beta Program. I already have my iPhone, iPad, and Apple Watch running v26 with no issues.

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What app is this? I don’t find it by that name in the App Store.

"Discovery - DNS-SD Browser" in the Apple App Store.

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As noted above, I have three TBRs, two Home Pods and a Google Nest Hub.

Checked using Discovery app on a spare iPhone I have, and the two Home Pods are on the same network, Google Nest Hub is on another:

Home Pods: MyHome######9159
Google Nest Hub: NEST-PAN-####

All three show tv= 1.3.0, so on the same version.

Google Nest Hub came first, set up w/Android device, pods set up w/iPhone of course, so I assume that's why all three aren't on the same thread network.

Also different...mn for Google Nest Hub is "Google Nest Hub" while both pods are "BorderRouter."

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This is correct. The Nest Hub needed to be setup with an iPhone via the Google Home iOS app.

Also, I finally got a chance to confirm my prior information. All eight devices are forming one thread network. My Apple TVs are on Thread 1.3 as are my Google Home Maxes. However, my Nest WiFi Pros are showing Thread 1.4. I think it came in the July 1, 2025 update (Wifi software versions and release notes - Google Nest Help) that discusses "improved and more reliable Thread support."

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