So before I get too far into the weeds, I thought I'd ask some advice on this.
I've always had two hubs, one for Z-Wave and Zigbee devices and the other for LAN devices. I use HubMesh to share devices between hubs for automation routines, etc.
I've always had the radios turned off on the second hub.
Today, I started removing and re-adding Z-Wave devices back as LR. These are devices primarily outside and on the edge of my Z-Wave mesh. In fact, I have over 100 devices in my mesh and inside the house it works very well. I have always had issues with the outside and yard devices and have employed different things like repeaters, etc. Those outside devices are not the most stable and I don' get perfect reliability... Many of them were already LR ready, like several ZEN51 and ZEN52's, but obviously included in the mesh before the latest hub update.
I started slowly converting them today, following @jtp10181 for guides and with the help of his Smart Start App...
I've been able to get 5 devices done (unscrewing lamps to get to the radio, etc) but its been a pain. I've encountered a ton of hub elevation and Z-wave errors along the way.
Maybe I have too much on my hub (both C8's) and that's why I'm getting all the nonsense...
But since I don't need these for my mesh anymore, and maybe because I have too much going on, should I consider taking the LR devices off and putting them on my secondary hub? I would still need to share them via Hub Mesh for the automation routines... So will it matter?
Is it the hub that's bogging down or the Z-wave radio?
No, the hub is plenty powerful. I have 200 or so devices and it's fine. That said, just remember that LR devices do not participate in the mesh. They also do not repeat for any other devices (including LR). So sometimes pairing may be an issue. As with any failed pairing though, check for and remove ghosts before moving on.
If you're removing Z-Wave devices from your mesh to convert them to LR you certainly can can run into issues if those devices were repeating for other Z-Wave devices on the mesh. Even if the LR devices didn't look like they were in the "right place" to repeat while on the Z-Wave mesh, we've seen over the years that Z-Wave sometimes moves/repeats in mysterious ways. Your devices still on the mesh will need to find new routes. You can help that along by:
Shut down the hub, pull power, wait 30s, and then plug in/restart (clears the radio)
Do a full Z-Wave repair on the hub when you've completed your Z-Wave LR changes.
I don't think you need to move LR devices to your other hub, you're not running a crazy amount of Z-Wave devices. Likely won't hurt anything if you do move them over, but then you would have to share them back via Hub Mesh to use them in automations on the original hub.
The devices I'm removing and changing over to LR are at the far edge of the mesh and not repeating. The repeaters I setup were for them and not for my main mesh (inside) that is very strong and has no issues... So as I change those far devices over to LR, I'm going to remove the repeaters...
I have not added any "new" LR devices but spent most of the day converting old ones to LR... I have the process down and using @jtp10181 app to make sure they re-add as LR..
It has been a pain because I have had to try the pairing multiple times... Not sure if its because these are older devices or what, but I have to shut the hub down and pull the plug almost every time and even then have to try multiple times before they will add... I either get a timeout message or the S2 inclusion failure talked about in other threads...
For the record, using Jeff's app, I am making sure they are all set for LR inclusion...
Two things to note, this C8 was an upgrade from a C7 that was an upgrade from a C5... I know that's been mentioned as a stack issue elswhere...
Every time, not just doing this, when I start my hub, I get severe hub load warnings and have to wait for about 15 minutes before it settles down. That has been going on a while now which was what made me say maybe I have too many devices on the hub... And although I have about 120 Z-Wave devices, I have equally the same number of Zigbee devices and mirrored devices from the LAN hub...
So hence, my thought since I don't need them in my mesh, maybe I should move the LR devices to the other hub...
I haven't done that yet, and still plugging along with swapping on my main hub... I only have a couple left and then I'm going to install some brand new ones... I'll see how that works...
This could be what is causing the load at boot, I think all hub mesh devices do a refresh of states with the main hub when you reboot to be sure the states are synced up.
Yeah the LR inclusion seems to be a bit flaky for some people. Might help if you pair the device closer to the hub if its portable. All of my inclusions have been within 10ft of the hub and worked fine but lots of other people are seeing multiple failures before it works. It wont even work at all on my main hub, gets a bootstrapping error every time, something due to the database migration from the C7.
I read that also and I think the statement from Zooz was being interpreted wrong, I would assume it is dynamic and the device would adjust as needed.
If that was your issues nothing would pair, myself and one other person have documented the same error and not a single device will pair in LR on our hubs. Gets a bootstrapping error in the logs every single time and fails.
I am using LR just on my dev hub to test things out. I do not have anything in normal use on LR yet.
Ok, I can get them to pair eventually... So maybe its cause I'm doing the exclude, re-include thing... I'll finish up the in place stuff this way and then try pairing the newer stuff close to the hub and then move them into place...
I'm going to replace some GE outlets I use for yard lighting, etc., with a regular outlet and a zen52 behind it, making it LR vs the 500 series in the GE outlets... Hoping, that will make them more reliable...
Thanks, i looked at those but trying to keep stuff hidden... i might buy one to try out... I have two of the older zen05 700 series... do they do LR by chance?
I have another issue that just popped up though...
I was able to get the last three zen51/zen52's added to the hub... Everything works, as they have devices and component devices where they should be. I can control them, turning off and on, but, the three entries for them disappeared in my z-wave details!
shutdown, plug pull, did not fix it... they are essentially ghosts, that don't show as ghosts but that the hub's z-wave radio can still control!
Have you seen that before?
even if I pull up your app, they show missing... but they have device details, including z-wave details! just don't show in the z-wave settings...
Yes, yours in the second case I have seen where the node is gone from details but still works.
@bcopeland@gopher.ny@bobbyD
Long Range devices added to hub and node vanishes from Z-wave details, but device still functions. There have now been two cases of this issue.
What is the DNI (or decimal number) of all the ones that are invisible? The other person who had this issue had a ton of ghost LR nodes so their node number got really high (0x014F / 335). Possibly a bug with higher node numbers that we did not find in beta.
I've had to shut the box down and unplug every time I've added a new LR device. They just won't add unless I do, even then, it hit or miss... But out of 5 tries, it usually takes...
For the record, after joining, and while I configure it, it DOES show in the z-wave settings page... However, with every shutdown and unplug, when the box boots back up, the devices is missing from the z-wave page... to answer your other question, yes they still work...
The last device that is showing in details page I added last night and it has a DNI of 0x010E (270) - a ZEN52.
The five missing devices that I all added today are as follows...
0x011F (287) - a ZEN52
0x0122 (290) - a ZEN52
0x0123 (291) - a ZEN51
0x0125 (293) - a ZSE41
0x0128 (296) - a ZSE41
As you can see, there are gaps between those numbers, but I don't show any ghosts... so not sure whats happening there...
My highest is 264 right now. @JasonJoel whats is your highest DNI for LR? Trying to proof a theory.
I think it is maybe just a display bug with the details page.
I would just repair one of my devices a bunch to test it but I need to get ready for a 6am flight tomorrow, will be out of town until later this week.
The gaps are probably from failed pairings, it seems that they tend to make temporary ghost nodes which then go away when you reboot.
Your devices still on the mesh will need to find new routes. You can help that along by:
