Strange "broken" Lutron Pico issue - mystery solved, but need Dr. Science to explain, please

Thought I'd share as this was an interesting (at least to me) troubleshooting experience, and I need someone to tell me the why. :slight_smile:

We have a small old-school desk lamp in the family room. Sort of a green version of the cute lamp "Luxo Jr." that Pixar uses as their mascot. AFAIK it's pretty old - my wife's family had it for many years. I didn't have spare smart plug around when I set the lamp up, so I put a Hue bulb in it and we have controlled the bulb via a Pico. Like below.

The other day my wife told me the lamp wouldn't turn on. "The Pico must be broken." was the comment. I was busy at the moment, but when I checked it a bit later the Pico/lamp combo was working fine, zero issues. On/off, on/off repeatedly. Chalked it up to some temporary Zigbee glitch. Told her "I fixed it." :slight_smile:

A day or so later she sitting next to the lamp and uses the Pico to try to turn on the bulb and it's the same issue again. "I thought you said you fixed it?" Oops...hmmm...so Zigbee acting up again?

I go over to the lamp to get the Pico and try it myself, and of course, now that I'm watching the lamp turns on and off normally. I ask her to show me which button she's pressing and confirm she's using the correct button. I try again several times right in front of her and it works fine, repeatedly. She presses the button and it works fine. I give her the "fixed" Pico muttering about looking at logs as I walk away. I'm three feet away and she presses the button to turn the lamp on and it doesn't turn on. Jaws drop, now we're completely mystified.

Then I realize something has changed...the small table the pico is sitting on had gotten a little more crowded recently when my wife added plant, so my wife moved the Pico from the table top to sitting on the base of the lamp. She had put it back there just before her last button press as I walked away.

Feeling (but hopefully not looking) like Hercule Poirot I return to the lamp and press the button on the Pico while it's sitting on the lamp base. I press the button once, twice, three times, four times, and the bulb doesn't turn on. I move the Pico onto the table, right next to the lamp base and press the button - and it works perfectly again, on/off, on/off, repeatedly. Back on the lamp base - no go. On the table next to it, in my hands, in her hands, on a table across the room, it works perfectly. Mystery solved! It's the lamp base!

We actually play around w/it for a bit, it's like an unplanned science experiment. On the base, doesn't work. Anywhere else, works every time. Tah-Dah!

I checked logs and found that when the Pico is sitting on the lamp base there is zero logging of any button events - it's like the button presses never happen. When the Pico is off the base button presses show up normally and automations run. In all cases the LED on the PIco flashes normally when the button is pressed. :slight_smile:

First time seeing something like this - kinda interesting/fun in the end. I'm assuming the wiring in the base of the lamp is doing something to block the Pico's normal operation.

Any "Dr. Science" geeks out there who can explain this, I'm all ears!

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I think this is a simple case of the metal base is creating a partial Faraday cage (aka a partial RF shield). Basically being so close to the Pico internal antenna that the antenna function is severely reduced.

I would be interested in seeing how far away the Pico must be to work. Maybe a pad of post-its?

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Ah, good idea...it's fine right next to the base, but I didn't try "insulating" it from the base.

Didn't think about a Faraday effect from something under the Pico, since on all other sides it is unobstructed.

Kind of a guess here but because the buttons are on the top, one would think the "antenna" is very near the bottom. Making it very near a metal "shield".

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I tried to add a Pico to the inside of my garage door, so I wouldn't have to walk over to the button if I was on the other side of the garage.

Same thing, it would not work when screwed to the metal frame of the garage door. The metal must be blocking the signal.

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This worked, so I think you're right, Faraday wins the day. :wink: A thinner section of paper was inconsistent.

Interesting, as I said I wasn't aware that a Faraday effect could be so "one-sided." Always assumed that multiple directions would need to be blocked unless an antenna is designed to be very directional.

Ain't science fun! :slight_smile:

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Depending upon the metal, the base could be absorbing the signal and converting it into (minuscule amounts of) heat.

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Reflected wave cancellation is my actual guess. That also changes by distance as you separate the reflected vs non-reflected waves and get them off cycle from each other.

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And more interesting results.

My wife just said (after I explained my genius to her :wink: ) that the Pico used to work fine sitting on the lamp. Hmmm...(again)

We tried it a in a few positions and found that when sitting on the left side of the lamp (where evidently it initially sat when she moved it to the lamp base) it works perfectly. So the most recent change wasn't from the table to the lamp, it was from the left side of the lamp to the right side, because it was esier for her to reach the button there. I don't use the chair/lamp so I never noticed that the Pico had been on a different side of the lamp before.

Presumably if I open up the base I'll find more wiring/metal bits under the right side.

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That would make my theory probably incorrect then.

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I prefer magic anyway. :wink:

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FWIW, the Pico Pedestal is actually pretty nice for this application even if you don't have this problem, though it seems like it might solve yours too. :slight_smile:

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Don't open the lamp base. You will find a signal cancelling Pico in there. Most likely by leviton.

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lol. Awesome story.
And to quote Jeremy Clarkson

Sometimes my genius …. It’s almost frightening.

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I just had nightmare flashback from 4 1/2 years ago...... :scream:

I too had a strange issue with a Pico. In the end, it was interference between the Pico and the Bond hub transmitting simultaneously and causing interference. If you have a few minutes, you can read the link thread:

I hadn't read about anything similar before that happened to me or since.

P.S. The thread even includes input from a former overly-sensitive and now banned community member for those looking to relive the past. Yes, he got insulted at one point during thread.

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Great, however I don't think it is purely "Faraday" however. In addition to shielding, the metal of the lamp seriously reduces the effectiveness of the internal antenna.

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Check your Lowe’s clearance section as I picked up a few for $7 at my local store.

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Wow that's a pretty great story and much more involved than mine was. The solution was excellent, simple and very effective.

Yeah, the fact that the results changed depending on what part of the base I put the Pico on does seem to indicate there are multiple variables involved here.

You absolutely have to disassemble the lamp base now and validate my RF-sucking theory!
Steel weight there?

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