Stop the drama

:beer: :+1: :sleeping_bed:

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:cocktail::bacon::pizza:

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I think we need an addition to the "heart" emoji we have.
image

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@Rxich
It could be a giant hammer button that makes a HONK HONK sound when someone presses it at you! :hammer: :joy:

Honk honk!

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This community needs a "mute" feature...

I've noticed lately that when I ask a question, I'm usually met with a terse explanation of why I shouldn't do things the way I am, rather than actually answering the question. That sort of feedback can be helpful, but it's not being delivered well.

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Actually they recently added that feature.

Thank you!

So wait, I can't be all grumpy and mean to people?! Fine. I'm taking my hub and going home! :stuck_out_tongue:

But seriously, I agree with this thread 100%. I make it a point to be as courteous as I can be (as anyone that knows me in real life will attest to, it's not an easy task lol). I really wish others would do the same.

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=MUTED

Just kidding @corerootedxb could never mute you. You give me too many ideas. (Here's your gold star)

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Missing - let me help you with that :smile:

:star::star::star::star::star:

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^^^^^^^^^^^^
This!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Person A: So I'm looking for directions to the hardware store.

Person B: Let me give this long winded explanation of why you shouldn't go to the hardware store but order from Amazon

The thing is the person doesn't know the directions, they just want to hear themselves talk. It is so frustrating reading threads like this. The question isn't answered but devolves into an argument with the person justifying the trip to the hardware store.

Further frustrates new users who end up using the search to find answers but instead finds a back and forth argument.

So if you don't know the answer, it is simple. Don't reply. Don't give your opinion when it wasn't asked for. If you feel the need, make a thread with your thoughts about a company, product or what have you then make getting help a difficult process here.

[Edit] if your input is helpful to the situation, then all means give it. So using my example:

Person C: You take a left on Main Street. Go down four blocks and make a right. However, I was just at that hardware store and no widgets are in stock. I ended up ordering from Amazon.

There are ways to be helpful and ways to be a hindrance. I'd love to see more answers then roadblocks here.

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Person D here. I believe you have attributed my words to Person C. Please correct your quote. :wink:

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If I apply two simple "principals", the issue gets easier for me to comment on:

1 - Everyone here has an earnest desire to be helpful.
2 - Everyone here really likes being a part of this community and Hubitat.

That said, as I've read a few of the more incendiary threads, it seems to be that some of it comes down to interpretation.

Person A will say it "can't" be done and be correct from a technical point of view. The person on the receiving end of it may not understand that or the reasons why it "can't" and be suitably offended.

Other times someone who is trying to help will end up saying "I can't help you" and that can be taken the wrong way. It's true in the "technical sense" but that doesn't mean in is received in the most congenial way.

There are many different cultures, languages and biases on this site and it's not always the sender's fault if something is misperceived. That doesn't release the sender from trying their best to come across in the most polite way possible. When I try and help, I always approach it from a place where the person(s) can misinterpret what I'm saying and then edit to a place where there's a minimal chance of that.

I've also apologized a time or two as well :slight_smile:

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I think it will come as no shock to anyone that i disagree. :slight_smile: I hope you'll do me the courtesy of actually reading the whole response before assuming what it says.

This thread perfectly demonstrates why I disagree with your premise....

Not all questions are created equally and not all questions SHOULD be answered. If someone is asking how to do something that will negatively impact their system in a way that they have not considered, you do that person a disservice by answering their question. Furthermore, if you know that it will negatively impact their system and you don't point that out, you have done harm to that person by your inaction.

Seinfeld fans know what I'm talking about.....criminal indifference. :wink: While that was taken to a comedic extreme, the principal is still applicable. If someone is asking a question similar to the one linked above, what should someone reading it do in that case? Let them learn it on their own? In that specific case, I was not the first to read it, nor was I the first to respond, both of which scared me. All of these people could read that post and not point out the danger? What if someone had gotten injured because the guy installed a smartswitch on a garbage disposal? And I'd done nothing to prevent it? While obviously not legally culpable, I would have held myself morally culpable for not doing what little I could to try and prevent it.

Personally, if I'm trying to do something that isn't going to work or there's a much easier way to do it, PLEASE tell me. I like avoiding unnecessary work and headaches.

By saying that something is a bad idea, you're not calling the person who came up with it "stupid" or insulting them. Brilliant people come up with amazing craptastic ideas all the time! That doesn't make them any less brilliant. Or mean that the other 10 ideas they came up with today aren't great. It just means that this particular idea is bad. In other words, someone saying "That's not a good idea" should not be equated with "You're stupid."

IMHO, people need to take things a little less personal. If someone is taking the time to point out that what you want to do isn't going to work the way you hope/think it is, rather than just assume they're doing it for nefarious reasons, why not assume that they're doing it to help you? You can only hear what someone says through the veil of your own prejudices. If you assume someone is saying something for a particular reason, I guarantee, you'll find evidence to justify it. Rather than jump up and down on that person, why not give them the benefit of the doubt?

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I wouldn't disagree with you on the taking it personal. I do think it works both ways though. If the people receiving the advice "need to take things a little less personal" then the person sending it can do their best to not be "taken personal."

I do disagree with the approach about not answering a question. There's no reason not to answer a question that I can think of. It's in the "how" that it's answered. If someone is going to do something that will negatively impact their system, then maybe they are ignorant and need help. Maybe they are okay with the risk to their system as part of a learning process. Who knows. If the person asking the question isn't responding in the manner the person answering "thinks" they should, then that's on the answering person's shoulders. I can't see a reason to be rude or condescending when there's a conflict there.

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I wouldn't disagree with that. I would say that instead of belittling that person saying something to that person at the time would be more appropriate. Also, maybe consider why they might be coming across that way. Sometimes we assume that people are just like us. It's natural for people to do so. And if you're "normal" then that assumption could be incorrect. There are reasons other than being a jerk that people have very little "tact" or perception of why their actions or what they say come across as offensive or rude. And not all of those reasons are 100% in their control. We need to take the time to consider that as well.

And, once you know someone's intentions (maybe by asking them) don't expect them to be able to change as quickly as you might like. If you've determined that they motives are good, cutting them some slack will not only encourage them but also show others that their motives are good.

In the end, differing opinions is also not a bad a thing. We aren't all the same. And this forum is not only to get your questions answered but is also hopefully a reference for the next guy. So, while you might not agree with someone's opinion, that doesn't mean that they shouldn't post it. If you don't like it, that doesn't mean they don't have the right to post it. It's not just for you. It's for everyone.

:scream: how dare you

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I could not have come up with a better response if I'd tried Doug. LOVE IT. :smiley: :rofl: I'm literally out of breath from laughing.

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Because overwhelming the topics posted here isn't about anything dangerous or anything related to being dangerous. A lot of times it is cause Person B just wants to give their OPINION.

Something being a BAD idea is an opinion. Something being dangerous is another thing entirely.

Maybe Person B thinks it is a BAD idea to go to the hardware store. However, there is no harm in giving them the directions. Maybe this person would enjoy getting out of the house. Maybe there was a delivery and now widgets are in stock. Person B doesn't know Person A's situation. Providing an opinion on why ordering from Amazon would be better is NOT helpful. Maybe Person A wants to support local business. There are just too many assumptions being made by Person B to assume ordering from Amazon is better.

Person C is helpful and provides the directions even though explaining the problem. Person B's opinion just amounts to noise in the thread about directions.

Right well if there is no hardware store in the first place to even drive too that is a problem!

Person C: There is no hardware store within a 500 miles radius of you. I suggest ordering from Amazon.

But I am curious about the quotes around can't. Many times I see things can be done but not ideal. For example repeating light bulbs causing problems.

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Why is that bad? I thought this forum was for everyone. Only certain people are allow to give their opinions or provide alternate solutions? Here's a post from @april.brandt where someone was asking about Lutron RadioRA wall keypads. She posted about a device which you attach to your computer.

That was completely off topic. Did it answer the OPs question? Absolutely not. Was it wrong of her to post that? Absolutely not. She has every right to post something that she thinks could help someone or that she wants to bring up. Just because it doesn't answer the OPs question, doesn't make it wrong or "noise", as you call it. It's a forum...stop judging people so much.
(P.S. April, I saw those things a while ago too and had the same thought...so cool!! I just don't have the patience to try figure out how to get them to work. :wink: )

No, sometimes Person B KNOWS it's not a good idea to go to the hardware store. That is my whole point. Person A has not considered something that Person B has. It is not always an opinion. But even if it is, you can choose to take that advice or not. Why shouldn't person B post it? Maybe you don't agree but the next person that comes along might.

And that is your opinion. You seem to think that the whole point of this forum is to help you. This forum is also a resource for others reading these posts later.

This is my whole point. Person B might have some information that Person A does not. And rather than spend 2 hours typing out a dissertation with footnotes and annotations, they just say so.

What has become completely clear to me is that I might have totally misunderstood the purpose of this forum. Is it intended to be an echo chamber where everyone is told their ideas are great and get reinforcement for one's fragile ego? Or is it a place for people to discuss things related to Hubitat and home automation? To even, I know this word scares people nowadays, DISAGREE about things?

Disagreements are not in and of themselves bad things. Can you imagine how boring life would be if we all agreed with each other? Yuck!