Simple rule to activate scene and companion rule to "deactivate" scene

I have a scene named "Outside Lights" that I'd like to activate 45 minutes prior to sunset and deactivate at 11:30 PM. I assume that I should define two rules. One to activate the scene and a second to deactivate the scene.

I created the activate rule like this:

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But when I go to create the deactivate rule, it seems odd that there's no companion "Deactivate scenes" option when defining an action.

Since a scene is represented as a virtual device, is it appropriate to simply turn off that scene's device in the second rule?

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If using the scene device is fine for the "deactivate" rule, what is the value of activating the scene in the first rule as opposed to simply turning on the scene's switch device?

Since I encountered cases in which lights would not turn on when attempting to activate scenes via such rules, I replaced the activate scene action with a simple switch action to turn on the scene's device.

I'm still curious to find out the purpose of the "Activate scenes" option in rules actions.

Although I read the introduction to groups and scenes, it didn't answer my questions about activating and deactivating scenes in rules.

All it does is turn on the Scene device.

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Same question here.

The icon on the dashboard for a scene has an "Off" and "On" button.

In the rules wizard, the best I can do is "Activate" a scene.

I dont see any "Deactivate" scene.

What are we missing?

As all activate scene does is turn on the scene device, I would suggest all you have to do is turn off said device.
Maybe if it said 'turn on scene device' it would be more obvious but I think Bruce has answered the question.
Give it a try and see what happens. :slight_smile:

It seems better to use the virtual device control action instead of the activate scene action in rules wizard.

But, now I have a new problem.

My scene works great with the button on the dashboard ON/OFF buttons.

But when triggering it with my smartthings button, the lights turn on as they should along with my harmony remote turning on the TV and Nvidia Shield, but then the lights in the scene power off again a second later leaving the TV and Shield on.

Actually its 3 outlets and 1 color bulb that turn off immediately after the button push that toggles the scene virtual device on and they arent even the same brand.

Both do exactly the same thing.

There is no such thing as "deactivate" a Scene. What does that mean? Turn off all of the lights in the Scene, or return them to their prior settings? What if part of the Scene is to turn something off? It would be better to think of activating a Scene as a one-way action. Then, you could have some other Scene or actions that represent "deactivate" that Scene, depending on what that actually means.