Recommendations for sensors?

[Krishna]

Questions -

• I assume "Destination" refers to the final destination of the signal, right?
• Does "Next Hop" mean the point intermediate between the repeater and the final destination
• What does it mean when it says "Destination: This Hub" and "Next Hop: This Hub." ?
• If we've proven that it is routing signals to my Master Bathroom devices, which include Master Bathroom Diffuser Master Commode Sensor, Master Shower Sensor, etc, then is there any other diagnostic to do to make sure the signals are strong enough and rule out other routing issues?

[aaiyar]

@Krishna

What does it mean when it says "Destination: This Hub" and "Next Hop: This Hub." ?

Ignore that. I interpret that to mean it is connected to the coordinator (Hubitat hub).

@Krishna

If we've proven that it is routing signals to my Master Bathroom devices, which include Master Bathroom Diffuser Master Commode Sensor, Master Shower Sensor, etc, then is there any other diagnostic to do to make sure the signals are strong enough and rule out other routing issues?

If you post the output from that endpoint, we may get some further insight.

[Krishna]

I didn't understand the instruction: Also post the output of the endpoint "/hub/zigbee/getChildAndRouteInfo"

What does that mean, exactly? Sorry this is unfamiliar to me.

[marktheknife]

@Krishna

"/hub/zigbee/getChildAndRouteInfo"

Type your hub’s IP address in a browser window and then copy/paste everything in between the quotes, hit enter.

[Krishna]

Ahh, thank you. Here is what I got:

Parent child parameters
EzspGetParentChildParametersResponse [childCount=2, parentEui64=0000000000000000, parentNodeId=65535]

Child Data
child:[Kids Bedroom Sensor, C33B, type:EMBER_SLEEPY_END_DEVICE]
No information for Child 1

Neighbor Table Entry
[Prayer Room Fan Light NE, 1BF2], LQI:235, age:4, inCost:5, outCost:7
[Tuya Zigbee Repeater, 3FDA], LQI:253, age:3, inCost:3, outCost:1
[Master Bedroom Diffuser, 78E4], LQI:236, age:6, inCost:5, outCost:7
[Prayer Room Fan Light SW, 9704], LQI:247, age:4, inCost:3, outCost:7
[Holiday Lites Dining Room, 9A89], LQI:233, age:3, inCost:5, outCost:7
[Master Bathroom Diffuser, AAC4], LQI:112, age:6, inCost:7, outCost:7
[Prayer Room Fan Light NW, AD1B], LQI:237, age:7, inCost:5, outCost:0
[Prayer Room Fan Light SE, BAC7], LQI:209, age:7, inCost:5, outCost:0
[Game Room Table Light, C73B], LQI:249, age:3, inCost:3, outCost:1
[Holiday Lites Temple, CA89], LQI:9, age:4, inCost:7, outCost:7

Route Table Entry
status:Unused
status:Active, age:64, routeRecordState:0, concentratorType:None, [Master Bathroom Diffuser, AAC4] via [Tuya Zigbee Repeater, 3FDA]
status:Active, age:64, routeRecordState:0, concentratorType:None, [Holiday Lites Dining Room, 9A89] via [Tuya Zigbee Repeater, 3FDA]
status:Active, age:64, routeRecordState:0, concentratorType:None, [Master Bedroom Blinds 1, C5B9] via [Tuya Zigbee Repeater, 3FDA]
status:Active, age:64, routeRecordState:0, concentratorType:None, [Master Bedroom Blinds 3, 2C9C] via [Tuya Zigbee Repeater, 3FDA]
status:Active, age:64, routeRecordState:0, concentratorType:None, [Holiday Lites Temple, CA89] via [Tuya Zigbee Repeater, 3FDA]
status:Active, age:64, routeRecordState:0, concentratorType:None, [Master Bedroom Diffuser, 78E4] via [Tuya Zigbee Repeater, 3FDA]
status:Active, age:64, routeRecordState:0, concentratorType:None, [Master Shower Sensor, 715A] via [Tuya Zigbee Repeater, 3FDA]
status:Active, age:64, routeRecordState:0, concentratorType:None, [Powder Room Sensor, 7045] via [Tuya Zigbee Repeater, 3FDA]
status:Active, age:64, routeRecordState:0, concentratorType:None, [Master Bathroom Sensor, 7FBB] via [Tuya Zigbee Repeater, 3FDA]
status:Active, age:64, routeRecordState:0, concentratorType:None, [Garage Sensor, 4A46] via [Game Room Table Light, C73B]
status:Active, age:64, routeRecordState:0, concentratorType:None, [Dining Room Blinds 1, 33F7] via [Prayer Room Fan Light NE, 1BF2]
status:Active, age:64, routeRecordState:0, concentratorType:None, [Prayer Room Fan Light SW, 9704] via [Tuya Zigbee Repeater, 3FDA]
status:Active, age:64, routeRecordState:0, concentratorType:None, [Game Room Table Light, C73B] via [Game Room Table Light, C73B]
status:Unused
status:Active, age:64, routeRecordState:0, concentratorType:None, [Master Commode Sensor, 4CD3] via [Tuya Zigbee Repeater, 3FDA]

[aaiyar]

@Krishna

The output of "/hub/zigbee/getChildAndRouteInfo" doesn't look good. @Tony has written a good description of how to interpret that table (especially the neighbor table) in this post:

Zigbee issues

(TL;DR: Also note those neighbor table entries showing age:7 with outCost:0; that's an indication they aren't useful for routing to the mesh) The 'Neighbor Table Entry' section contains info from the most recent link status messages received from up to 16 routing nodes that the hub will consider using to transmit to your entire Zigbee mesh (as the 'first hop' of a single or multi-hop route). Even if you have more than 16 routing devices in your mesh, the hub can use only one of the 16 neigh…

Basically, long story short, the ONLY good repeater you have is the TuYa repeater (called Tuya ZIgbee Repeater). You have a whole bunch of other repeaters that are terrible repeaters (very high inCost and outCost, or outCost = 0). Just as a good repeater stabilizes a zigbee mesh, bad repeaters do the opposite.

It looks like most of them are bulbs. My recommendation is that over time (2-3 years), slowly replace these bulbs with zigbee 3.0 bulbs, of which there are several on the market now. I recently reviewed a couple that were fairly inexpensive and worked well with Hubitat. Unlike older bulbs, newer zigbee 3.0 bulbs seem to work well as repeaters.

Edit: Sorry - Game Room Table Light is also working well as a repeater.

[Krishna]

Uh-oh. First question - the only Zigbee repeaters I have the one Tuya repeater, several Sonoff smart plugs (which someone here recommended to me), and several of those Luntak smart plugs (which you recommended to me).

I just ordered four more of those Luntak smart plugs-- mostly to function as repeaters - should I cancel that?

The only other devices that may be functioning as repeaters are 4 GE bulbs (which I can certainly replace) and a bunch of Philips Hue bulbs (which are expensive and irreplaceable and anyway I thought they used their own Zigbee mesh). I can't get rid of the Philips bulbs, those are the highlight of my smart home.

Would simply buying more Tuya repeaters be sufficient to fix this?

BTW, Game Room Table Light is using one of those Sonoff smart plugs, but I have others of the same time that you did not mention as good... why would one be good and not the others?

[aaiyar]

@Krishna

the only Zigbee repeaters I have the one Tuya repeater, several Sonoff smart plugs (which someone here recommended to me), and several of those Luntak smart plugs (which you recommended to me).

The only repeaters shown in the table you have posted above are these:

[Prayer Room Fan Light NE, 1BF2], LQI:235, age:4, inCost:5, outCost:7
[Tuya Zigbee Repeater, 3FDA], LQI:253, age:3, inCost:3, outCost:1
[Master Bedroom Diffuser, 78E4], LQI:236, age:6, inCost:5, outCost:7
[Prayer Room Fan Light SW, 9704], LQI:247, age:4, inCost:3, outCost:7
[Holiday Lites Dining Room, 9A89], LQI:233, age:3, inCost:5, outCost:7
[Master Bathroom Diffuser, AAC4], LQI:112, age:6, inCost:7, outCost:7
[Prayer Room Fan Light NW, AD1B], LQI:237, age:7, inCost:5, outCost:0
[Prayer Room Fan Light SE, BAC7], LQI:209, age:7, inCost:5, outCost:0
[Game Room Table Light, C73B], LQI:249, age:3, inCost:3, outCost:1
[Holiday Lites Temple, CA89], LQI:9, age:4, inCost:7, outCost:7

What kind of device is each of these? The only decent repeaters in this list are:

[Tuya Zigbee Repeater, 3FDA], LQI:253, age:3, inCost:3, outCost:1
and
[Game Room Table Light, C73B], LQI:249, age:3, inCost:3, outCost:1

[Krishna]

Prayer Room Fan Light are all old GE Zigbee bulbs. I can definitely get rid of those.

Master bedroom Diffuser and Master Bathroom Diffuser are those Luntak Smart plugs you recommended to me.

Holiday Lites Dining Room, Game Room Table Light and Holiday Lites Temple are all Sonoff S31 Zigbee plugs (https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B082PSKRSP/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1)

[aaiyar]

My suggestion is to remove those GE bulbs. Then power-down your Hubitat for 20-25 minutes (no LED on, so the radios are unpowered). Then start up the Hubitat again.

After a few hours, your mesh will settle down and I predict be much stronger than it currently is. You may have to re-pair a few zigbee end-devices.

Edit: When I have done this, I have had to re-pair two or three end-devices out of ~80 total zigbee devices.

[Krishna]

Thanks, I'll do that today and report back on the results.

Question - does it make sense that I could have several devices of the same type, yet only some are "good repeaters" while the others are not?

Also, is a "good repeater" something that has a high inCost relative to outCost or do you determine that some other way?

[ogiewon]

@Krishna

Also, is a "good repeater" something that has a high inCost relative to outCost or do you determine that some other way?

You want inCost to be low.

[brad5]

I'm going to put in my plug (pun intended) for moving any zigbee bulbs off your HE and onto a secondary hub like a Hue hub. Many Zigbee bulbs try to be repeaters. While they are fine at repeating Zigbee messages from other bulbs, they don't work well as repeaters for other devices. (I think this has changed with Zigbee 3.0... someone fact check me on this) Second, zigbee bulbs have a habit of getting turned off if they are connected to switches or light fixtures, which also makes them bad repeaters. You can address the first by either using Zigbee bulbs (like Sengled) that are not repeaters, or by moving them to a hub (and channel) that contains only bulbs. The light bulb that gets shut off is tougher but at least if they are on a separate hub and get shut off only your other smart bulbs are at risk.

[Krishna]

Thanks, but all my Philips Hue bulbs are on the Hue hubs and then I have the Hue Hubs linked to my Hubitat. I assume that is ok?

Just to clarify, those GE bulbs that I have don't work as repeaters if I turn off the switch to them, right?

[aaiyar]

@brad5

I think this has changed with Zigbee 3.0... someone fact check me on this

My empirical observation agrees with what you’ve said.

[brad5]

@Krishna

Thanks, but all my Philips Hue bulbs are on the Hue hubs and then I have the Hue Hubs linked to my Hubitat. I assume that is ok?

Just to clarify, those GE bulbs that I have don't work as repeaters if I turn off the switch to them, right?

That's excellent. You can also use some non-Hue bulbs on the Hue hub. The Hue bulbs are great but admittedly pricey. Not sure if the GE can or not.

A Zigbee bulb that has been powered off will most definitely not function as a repeater, until it is turned back on.

[Krishna]

Maybe I could try cutting power to those bulbs by turning the switch off, then, and see if that changes things after I reboot the hub.

[brad5]

It takes a bit of time for a zigbee mesh to rebuild itself. How long depends a lot on your network. I'd try removing them for a few hours (or maybe overnight) at the least.

[brad5]

@Krishna

does it make sense that I could have several devices of the same type, yet only some are "good repeaters" while the others are not?

Absolutely. Just like in real estate, it's location, location, location. You could have a zigbee outlet behind a refrigerator that makes a pretty lousy repeater while the same device in an area where it is not blocked by metal could work great. You never quite know what's happening to those radio waves as they zip around your house.

[Krishna]

The trouble is, some of these repeaters need to be where they are. They don't have to function as repeaters, I just need them to be smart plugs. But... if they are in bad locations for repeaters, will they bring down my Zigbee network? Because I don't know what to do if every Zigbee plug is a repeater. Some of those have to be in certain hard to reach places...