Presence sensing sporadic and unreliable; let's please get this fixed

[user3847]

@marktheknife

Background in coding not at all necessary.

Being tech savvy, yes, but that’s not the same thing.

I consider myself tech savvy.

Here's a perfect example: I just started going down the road of trying to install HubiThings. Yes, there are step-by-step instructions I found, but then on step three I'm stymied because the link to install a Smart Things PAT is not working. And I have no idea what a PAT is. And people on these forums seem to love to use abbreviations and only provide guidance like "go find a thread somewhere". So I find a thread and it's got a hundred entries.

I appreciate that people are willing to try and help, and that people are writing code that is free for the taking that supposedly opens up a whole world of possibilities with HE. But it's like this rabbit hole of frustration just to try and solve something simple that shouldn't need solving in the first place.

[rlithgow1]

@user3847

And I have no idea what a PAT is.

Personal Access Token...

[user3847]

@rlithgow1

Switch it to virtual switch instead of button. See if that fixes it. Buttons aren't supported at the moment

A switch won't work. I need more than on/off. I need on/off/stop.

[rlithgow1]

You may have to do multiple switches then.

[bill.d]

For presence there is only on (Arrived - present) and off (Departed - not present). Use the combo 'Virtual Presence with Switch' device driver.

Homekit presence status?

I have to assume you've setup a "Virtual Presence plus switch" device in Hubitat and shared that to Apple Homekit. You've then created Apple Automations to "copy" Apple's presence into the Switch portion of that device. You don't say any of that but because of "RM" I've got to assume you made it that far. If Not, let's start there. Create two virtual devices, one for you, one for the wife. Both use the built-in "Virtual Presence with Switch" device type. In the Hubitat Homekit Integration, sele…

[Peter847]

I am considering upgrading my home automation system to Z Wave/Hubitat and have just setup Presence sensing using my iPhone. It only sporadically responds to crossing the geofence hence I have read some (not all!) of the posts here. I see a lot of comments saying it is an IOS issue not Hubitat. I am still running my previous automation app and that reports the crossing 100% of the time within a few seconds.

This certainly does look like a Hubitat issue and they need to fix it.

[aaiyar]

As you’re using an iPhone, the best way to geofence would be to use an automation with the Apple Home app. It is so closely tied into the OS, that I’ve never known it to fail.

With Hubitat’s new HomeKit integration, it is very easy to do so.

[Peter847]

Sounds interesting, Can you give me a few bullet points on what to do to start me on my research . . . . I'm not an Apple expert!

[aaiyar]

Sure.

1. Create a virtual presence device in Hubitat, using this built-in driver: "Virtual Presence with Switch".
2. Setup the HomeKit integration on Hubitat, and expose your new Virtual Presence device to HomeKit. This virtual device looks like a Presence sensor in Hubitat, and as a Switch in the Apple Home app.
3. Setup a Home Automation (in the Apple Home App), such that when you arrive home, Apple Home turns on the "Virtual Presence Switch".
4. Setup a Home Automation (in the Apple Home App), such that when you leave home, Apple Home turns off the "Virtual Presence Switch".

Note - for "4" to work, you need some sort of Apple Home hub - like an Apple TV4 or a HomePod/HomePod mini.

[Peter847]

Great, thanks, that gives me the overall plan. One question though, it sounds like you need one "static" Apple device in the home to execute "4"? It can't all be done in a phone?

[aaiyar]

@Peter847

it sounds like you need one "static" Apple device in the home to execute "4"? It can't all be done in a phone?

Correct.

Because the Apple Home app on your iPhone needs to communicate its location to an Apple Home hub on your home network, when it is away from your home network. This is an Apple HomeKit requirement - and is necessary for all location based automations through the Apple Home app. Has nothing to do with Hubitat per se.

[markles]

As an update, I spoke too soon and presence sensing using Webcore hasn't worked at all for the last two days and I'm currently exploring other options. Nothing has changed with either HE or my phone. It would be great if the Hubitat team could sort this out.

[emberwyn]

My final submission on this: I'm abandoning Hubitat's GeoFencing (as have many others), as this is clearly not a priority.

A support staff had messaged me in late December asking for more info as I had offered to help troubleshoot. I sent the below message on Jan 2, and as of today (Feb 9) have heard no response.

----
Good morning...
1/2/2023

When you're back at this, I thought I'd get this started with some info from my troubleshooting steps so far:

Phone(s): iPhone 14 Pro x2; IOS 16.2 on both.
Hubitat: C7; v 2.3.4.123 ID:
Hubitat App on iPhones: v1.2.8 Bld: 145
.. app settings/IOS:
... Location: Always
... Local Network: On
... Motion & Fitness: On
... Background App Refresh: On
... Cellular Data: On
.. Hubitat App Settings:
... Enable Geofence: On
... Advanced: All Off

As I write this, looking at the Hubitat app on my iPhone, it correctly shows my location and notes "Inside of Geofence" The hub however, shows us both away ... and we've been home (our geofence) for at least 18 hours. I just tapped "Send Geo Event" on my phone and the hub now correctly shows my presence at home.

A couple of days ago, we left the house together, loaded the hubitat app and left it showing on both phones. The app correctly tracked us as we left the geofence area, but they only updated the status message "Inside of Geofence" like 10+ minutes after we had left the fence boundary, and even then the dashboard never reflected the status change.
Two things seem to force a status update:

1. Changing the geofence boundary.
2. Tapping the "Send Geo Event"

This test tells me that neither IOS battery handling, nor background handling are to blame as the app was always running in the foreground and tracking our location on the map.

Let me know how I can help next.
----

My concern, beyond the obvious frustration of a stated feature they cannot make work reliably, is how this bodes for home automation in general. I love Hubitat and all it offers. But as it grows in complexity, will they be able to maintain it over time? What other function(s) we rely upon might stop working and is deemed, for whatever reason, not worthy of fixing? I so want Hubitat to succeed, and I deeply hope they factor ongoing maintenance into their business model. It's clearly not there yet.

[lflorack1]

When the Hubitat Presence/Geofencing software fails miserably and switching to the webCoRE presence sensor/geofencing (in my case) is the only change made and my geofencing now runs perfectly, the fault lies completely within the Hubitat Presence/Geofence software. It's not, as some have said, the phone's configuration settings, etc. Same phones. Same hub. Same settings all around. Just the Hubitat software.

[user2423]

I moved to Owntracks presence, which was a lot better, but still not perfect. I have now settled on Geofency presence which has been rock solid for months now. Our household is iPhone.

[brianwilson]

@user2423

I have now settled on Geofency presence which has been rock solid for months now. Our household is iPhone.

I cannot emphasize enough that if you’re iPhone only, you should be using Geofency. I make nothing off recommending it, but the price is worth it for the accuracy.

[rlithgow1]

If you have an apple tv or homepod/home pod mini, the homekit presense is almost bulletproof

[wj72]

I'm also having success with the Homekit presence. I only wish I could control the radius around my location. There may be a bug in the Home app or the iOS I'm on, when I add a new location and try to save the radius I select it disappears. I'm hoping it's an issue that will be fixed.

Unfortunately I feel we live in a world where the number of things we interface with that don't work well continues to rise. As things become more interconnected and complex the number of failure points increases. Whether we like it or not we're all slowly getting used to broken things being the norm and it's a real shame. And yes I feel like a crusty old guy saying that.

[emberwyn]

Living with broken software is a collective choice. One I refuse to embrace. These are fixable problems. The companies behind these devices and related code are driven by the usual profit motive. If enough of us users dump the product, submit valid negative reviews, and/or submit valid support cases to the point we can't be ignored, companies will respond or pay the price. The problem is often that people complain without being willing to engage with real information for support and engineering to troubleshoot. Partnership goes both ways.

In this case though, if Apple and Geofency can make presence work on iPhone, why can't Hubitat? So many referrals to alternatives. If we don't expect Hubitat to make a touted feature work properly, what motivation do they have to fix it? If allowed to become pervasive, then we perpetuate the trend of an ever-growing list of unfixed bugs.

[wj72]

I agree with what you're saying I'm not happy about it either.

I've been around long enough now to recognize a pattern over the years and it's not a good one. Nearly 30 years in tech/software and almost 20 of that as a developer. It's not what it used to be, attitudes included.