This is very much a personal grievance, so can appreciate if people choose to swipe whatever direction indicates indifference nowadays....
But.... When posting a new topic it irks me when people choose to immediately declare that there is a bug in the HE system, or that some aspect of HE experience is somehow negative, before having received feedback from other Community members or HE staff. While titles are not "forever", they typically are, often remaining with the same negative implications when they were created. Please be mindful this is the informs the impression people, potentially new users, receive when scanning topics on this forum.
I can understand people being in a headspace where a topic title may reflect their frustration, etc, but if nothing else... re-visit the title of the topic once the dust settles and the actual root cause surfaces....
EDIT - For what it's worth, those that phrase their topic titles in a "question-like" style,.... "Is this a bug....", I don't have a problem with these...
So... Observed Irregularity??
"Huh, that's interesting..."
@sburke781 All busting aside the point is a valid one. Besides, now that our friends at Hubitat maintain a "known issues" list, there's a single place to look to see if it is a known bug.
I am not sure I totally agree with this premise. This forum seems to be split between the occasional poster, who is simply looking for help with problems they encounter, versus the active members who see it as a community. (Considering, I got up this morning and decided to check what the guys on HE where discussing, puts me into the later category, LOL).
I am sure there are many HE owners that have never visited this forum, and many others who visit very rarely and simply post when they have an issue. By nature all these posts are going to start with phrases similar to: "Error when ....", "There is a Bug with this ....", "This is not working as it should...."
I do see your point with the phrase "There is a bug", to me it seems a little presumptuous, just because the software is not acting as one expects, does not mean it is not acting as intended. Some (although not the majority) of posts I have read in the past that mention a bug, sound a little too much like: "This is not exactly how I want the software to work, therefore it is a bug, and I am reporting it..."
As a recent example, I came across a problem creating a rule. I first checked the "known issues" list for the release I was on and it did not appear to be one of the listed issues (often the list of known issues, does not detail the problems you may encounter with the issue, so it can be difficult to know if the problem you are encountering is a "known issue"). I created a thread with the title "Error when trying to create ....", described my problem and Bruce quickly replied: "
There are some problems with this action in 188.8.131.52. Working on them now...."
It was fixed in the next release (2 days later) and all is well. Was this a bug? Could I have titled my thread "There is a bug..." I don't know, I don't really understand the word "bug", I feel its better to just accurately describe what you are experiencing, rather then assuming something is wrong with the software. (Thread I am referencing: Error when trying to create a rule)
There is nothing inherently wrong with suspecting that there is a bug. That's where the "solved" checkmark comes handy. However, to your point, the titles of the posts are very important, as they serve as future reference point when someone searching for a similar issue. It would be more effective if a title briefly states the problem. Titles like "I found a bug!!!" are less effective than a title like " Bug in Basic Rules prevents lights to turn off" (just an example). Or just skipping the "bug" and simply stating the issue.
I think that @sburke781 was trying to let people understand that changing the title of a thread after the issue was resolved can and should be done when the title does not reflect the outcome of the original post anymore, there is a bug can be valid but if it's not, we all should change the title appropriately. Of course I would rather title something like : Bug or missing feature or did I miss something, blablabla?
And that is the problem, most people that are here for help with a problem they just encountered are not here long enough to realise the "potential turn off the titles can have on would be buyers". But they are not here long enough also to read this post either to change there way of things. The question I'm asking myself is should we, the older users with the "power" to change other users title, do it for them just like we sometimes move a topic to the correct place when needed.
I really don't believe this happens on a scale of more than 10 potential purchases a year, could it conceivably happen, sure. Does it happen on anywhere near a regular bases, I don't believe it does.
Forums intended for product support, by nature are populated with posts that start with phrases alluding to problems with the software (bug, error, flaw, etc...).
Forums intended for promotion of a product, by nature try to minimize the posts that detail users' problems with the software.
I think the majority of potential buyers don't even visit this forum before purchasing, or if they do they are not spending more than a few moments (although I believe 99%+ of potential buyers would read and watch online reviews of hubitat). Of the potential buyers that do spend some time on this forum, I believe they understand it is a support forum and are happy to see people posting problems with the software and help being quickly provided.
I believe the following would be an exceptionally bad idea:
When the Original Poster becomes aware that the title of the post has been changed, they would likely view this as an attempt to change the forum from one of "Support" to one of "Product Promotion". This would rub many people the wrong way and justifibly so. I believe anyone considering changing another user's thread title need to ask themselves: "Am I doing this so it is easier for users' to get the support they need, or am I doing this so HE is protrayed in a better light and the thread now does a better job of product promotion"
If you at all feel that you are doing it for the latter, I would not do it.
Just my opinion, I respect users who feel different.
Absolutely. There's a reason the entitlement is given in the first place. Just like to ability to mark a post as the solution.
I agree about potential customers however new to HE customers start seeing these titles and a cycle of frustration despair / echo chamber starts.. easy for misinformation to get promoted as fact...
I also agree about not changing peoples titles or marking things as a solution - I've only done this (mark something solved!) on rare occasions when it was obvious. @bobbyD has changed titles from time to time but has usually informed the poster as to why etc. He did this to one of my submissions a while ago..
I can understand why Hubitat, Inc. might act if they see something that they deem is harmful to their mission/business interests/the community etc.
I will routinely change the title of a post that starts with BUG when it is shown not to be a bug at all. That's misinformation. I'd guess that perhaps half of such posts are not bugs at all, but misunderstandings, mistakes, etc. It does seem presumptuous for a user to declare something to be a bug without even understanding what has happened, especially for a newer user. But this happens all of the time.
So I have to agree with the OP that making a topic declare a bug should be done more carefully than it currently is done. However, there are bugs. Many posters will say something like, "why am I getting this error?", to which the response from us will be, "that's a bug."
If you get an error in the logs, there is a problem and we'd certainly like to know about it. Some of these pertain to custom drivers, but on balance most refer to actual problems we need to address. We've started posting the Known Issues list where we identify such things as we become aware of them. It would certainly be helpful that if you think you've encountered a bug, you check this list before posting about it.
Meanwhile, we'd rather hear about bugs than not.
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