Paul Hibbert goes after ZigBee Again

Oh I find him funny and he does make some good points but his does have a mis-mash or so many things I for one would suggest he just get a Hubitat running, consolidate all those disconnected one off's that he has and see how much better life is with a good tightly integrated system.

I couldn't agree with you more @Shaneb. Well said :+1:

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Always a great idea :wink:

I can see your point about the wifi products need an app to work. Just here lately the wifi switches I been buying are all based on the Tuya hardware and software designs.

The other thing is I am a hubitat user and believe in the hub that I bought. The hubitat people needs to look into getting the hook up for Tuya for control without doing flashing the software. Home Assistant has that capability and that is looking pretty good right now.

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I'd back Tuya intergration they make loads and loads of products. not sure how feasible it is @mike.maxwell might know?

Edit I guess there is also, IFTTT

My design goals with the Hubitat was to have as much local execution as possible. Under most cases my home and the others I have setup could run 99% of their functions without the internet. If I had to go to Tuya, Amazon, Google, and other cloud services it would negate my goals.

I do make sure I recommend "compatible" devices that have a vetted driver or native support. Many of the other devices out there like FEIT smart lighting products just don't have the option to interface without flashing firmware, installing NodeJS gateways, or getting deep into MQTT.

Some folks like tinkering which is great because that is how we have some incredible device drivers and applications on this platform. Other's want turnkey systems. My professional goal is that the platform needs to be invisible and just work every day every time it's interacted with.

Does he have the ability to edit the comments? There are next to no Youtube comments that disagree with him or praise him on how funny and great his videos are.

I don't think so but there are also a lot of people asking what sensor he is holding or what tech was in the video, so I suspect they are not very tech savvy viewers

You misspelled Hannity.

ok ok, I'm done. No politics!

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Ha, that's funny, at first I'm thinking, hmm is he referring to another post? I didn't say anything about Hannity, and now I get it. Very witty.
And CNN was right, the riots were mostly peaceful, except the burning & killing

Ok Ok , no more politics

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He must work for smartthings

Joined SmartThings after flouncing from Tuya :slight_smile:

I have probably sold more Hubitats than any other Youtuber, so it's pretty weird to find me getting slagged off in here. I mean, it's pretty weird anyway, because it makes me sound like I'm some untouchable millionaire celebrity that didn't pay his taxes :joy:. My missus will tell me not to waste my time trying to explain this to anyone, but it bothers me that I am viewed in this light in a place that I regard so highly, Hubitat is the best smart home device on the market, and it matters to me that others may read this thread and think "what a jerk", so here goes...

In before the trolls; "you deserve it for being so intentionally controversial". I'll get to exactly why the video is formatted the way it is at the end, but first try seeing this from my perspective; I have this goal to speed up the progress of the Smart Home world, so that people like my grandparents can enjoy their independence just a little bit longer, and I look out at the market place and I only see three real options:

  1. Cheap Wifi stuff which is reliant on a server in China, but is super easy to setup and use... and I think "That's great, but it sucks that it's not local and there are few battery operated devices"
  2. Expensive Zigbee stuff like Philips Hue which is easy to use, works locally but is SUPER over-priced... and I think "That's great, but my grandparents can't afford that"
  3. Inexpensive Zigbee bits and bobs that may or may not work with one system or another but are too complicated for my grandparents to buy into, and I think "Not everyone's grandparents have a Paul Hibbert to help them get this stuff working"

I know for a fact that many manufacturers are choosing Wifi over Zigbee because it's cheaper to manufacture, and it bothers me because although the advantages of Zigbee are totally overstated there ARE still advantages. So I think to myself "I'll make a video that attacks three things":

  1. Philips Hue for being so preposterously over-priced
  2. Zigbee for charging a fee to manufacturers
  3. The sad cases that had attacked me previously for standing up and saying something. By the way, if you took offence to me saying "stop marrying your smart home gear" then you need to stop marrying your smart home gear :joy:

So what was the point?

  1. I want to see a smart home industry that is accessible to all people, not just those of us that have the time and experience to use something like Hubitat.
  2. I want to see a smart home industry that doesn't need massive amounts of money to buy into something like Philips Hue.

How do we get there?

We drive down the price of Zigbee by pushing noobies to something that is cost effective, and (as proved in the video) works just fine for most people. The majority of people just want to be able to control a couple bulbs, maybe a plug socket or two: Wifi is fine for this. If you disagree you are being intentionally obstinant out of some bizarre sense of pride.

Don't get me wrong; Hubitat is making amazing strides toward making a very complicated industry more accessible, but it can't do it alone. The industry is a mess of different standards; even Zigbee is actually two separate standards as it has has both ZHA and ZLL, then there's Zwave, RF, now Wifi is doing the whole mesh thing, and there are new standards on the way, gee I wonder how much they will cost.

You "Zigbee enthusiasts" should probably start worrying about what methods the Zigbee alliance will use to push you into "Connected Home over IP". In case you don't know they are right this second getting into bed with Apple, Amazon, Google, Samsung and Signify and I guarantee they'll be looking for ways to push you into buying it at an even bigger premium. I sincerely worry that there is a cartel on the horizon, if Tuya join them then we are royally screwed and the 'Smart Home' will go the way VR did in the 80's and take years to recover. It's still in its infancy, and people are still very wary of the pay off for investings hundreds of pounds in this stuff.

Perhaps your grandparents are no longer with us, perhaps you only ever buy your door sensors on aliexpress and you think none of this effects you. You should realise that there is a wider market that the smart home industry as a whole relies on to continue its existence; if you can't see how my video helps to maintain balance by pushing Noobies into Wifi then I don't know what to tell you. If you think it's wrong of me to push them into Wifi as a beginner then ask yourself this question: "Would you recommend Hubitat, or Homey, or even Smartthings to your Grandparents"? Would you even recommend it to your Mum and Dad? if the answer is yes, then congratulations, you're alienating all noobies simply out of buyers pride. Hubitat and Zigbee are things you graduate to once you've learnt how to get Alexa to control a Wifi bulb, I'm sure we can all agree on that, I mean, you must have come from that place yourself surely?

So why did I format the video in such a controversial way?

If you mean by mocking people who have clearly married a network standard, then the answer is simple; because it's funny and there's literally nothing controversial about it. If you saw this video as controversial then you are far too emotionally invested in something that 1. doesn't matter and 2. doesn't care about you. Zigbee is not more important than the Smart Home industry as a whole, it is not more important than the elderly and the disabled. If my video wounded your pride then you need to take a good look at what it is in this world that you have chosen to tie your ego to. Stop being a "Zigbee enthusiast" and start being a "Smart Home enthusiast".

Why did I leave things out?
Zigbee's ONLY advantage is the low power consumption for battery operated devices. Once again this was in the video, I didn't try to hide anything and there was nothing disingenuous about my presentation. Before anyone gives me grief about me not discussing mesh it's because there's nothing to discuss. I proved in the previous video that my Philips Hue lamp did not extend the range of my Philips Hue bulb, and I also proved that my Wifi socket went further than my Philips stuff did even with my Wifi mesh repeater turned off. Mesh might be "a thing" on paper but I've never seen it play out in real life; it doesn't work between standards (ZHA and ZLL) and it doesn't work between manufacturers. If anyone is disinguous then it's the Zigbee alliance for allowing the advantages of mesh to be advertised without all the facts. Let's pretend though for the sake of argument that mesh works as advertised; there are now Wifi bulbs purpoertedly doing the exact same thing from companies such as Broadlink. Zigbee Mesh is no longer a valid argument. Zigbee should NOT cost more than Wifi, end of discussion.

I won't be coming back to check on the replies to this, just as I haven't bothered to read any of those above this comment. It's nothing personal; as strongly as I feel about this subject, my mental health is more important. This comment is solely for anyone on the fence about me as a person, and for anyone new to this stuff that is watching my video out of context that can't understand my motivations. One more thing that I shall reiterate from my video; I have loads of Zigbee stuff, you can see that for yourself in my smart home tour, Zigbee is perfect for battery operated devices and I am constantly recommending it as something people graduate to once they're bored of using Alexa to turn a bulb on and off. Guess which hub I'm recommending people use for their Zigbee stuff :wink:

Zigbee has a place in any proper smart home enthusiasts arsenal, but it shouldn't cost more to buy or to manufacture than Wifi gear does. It doesn't seem to matter how many times I say "I don't hate Zigbee. and I don't hate you for buying it" People just love a villain. If you watch my video again through the eyes of a "Smart Home enthusiast" rather than a "Zigbee enthusiast" you'll see there's nothing left out, there's no half truths, there's no lies, and there's no hidden agenda. I want Zigbee to be afforable, and I want to educate people about the myths surrounding Wifi so that we can all have a more versatile smart home industry that isn't monopolised by massive corporations and an alliance that charges a fee just for slapping its name on a product. If that makes me a villain then mwuhahahahahahaha.

I know TLDR right. See you on Youtube

xxx

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Argh!!! Ageism. I am a grandparent who has to help the grandchildren get their stuff working :stuck_out_tongue:

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I think Paul offends every product equally. HomeAssistant, Broadlink, Tuya, ZigBee, and just wait till he comes after the Node-Red guys. :slight_smile:

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While I don't always agree with your takes I enjoy watching your videos and appreciate you trying to help out the maybe less technically oriented consumer.

Thanks for that!

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He's not coming back to read, he said. But then he also said he hadn't read previous comments, so it's left me wondering how he knew there were negative ones.

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Kudos for someone in your position to comment here and put yourself at the mercy of us :slight_smile:

I am a fan, admittedly a Philips Hue loving fan... :slight_smile:

Probably need to spend more time writing a reponse before writing anything too critical.

Simon

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I love Pauls videos, most entertaining, I do think he rants a bit too much at everything but that's part of the beauty

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He can feel free to do so. No one that uses node-red for professional or personal use gives a rip what some YouTube blogger says anyway.

He is entitled to his opinion, of course. But why I should care about it at all is beyond me.

That said I support his right to have and express his opinion freely, and wish him no ill will.

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