Paul Hibbert goes after ZigBee Again

I don't think so but there are also a lot of people asking what sensor he is holding or what tech was in the video, so I suspect they are not very tech savvy viewers

You misspelled Hannity.

ok ok, I'm done. No politics!

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Ha, that's funny, at first I'm thinking, hmm is he referring to another post? I didn't say anything about Hannity, and now I get it. Very witty.
And CNN was right, the riots were mostly peaceful, except the burning & killing

Ok Ok , no more politics

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He must work for smartthings

Joined SmartThings after flouncing from Tuya :slight_smile:

I have probably sold more Hubitats than any other Youtuber, so it's pretty weird to find me getting slagged off in here. I mean, it's pretty weird anyway, because it makes me sound like I'm some untouchable millionaire celebrity that didn't pay his taxes :joy:. My missus will tell me not to waste my time trying to explain this to anyone, but it bothers me that I am viewed in this light in a place that I regard so highly, Hubitat is the best smart home device on the market, and it matters to me that others may read this thread and think "what a jerk", so here goes...

In before the trolls; "you deserve it for being so intentionally controversial". I'll get to exactly why the video is formatted the way it is at the end, but first try seeing this from my perspective; I have this goal to speed up the progress of the Smart Home world, so that people like my grandparents can enjoy their independence just a little bit longer, and I look out at the market place and I only see three real options:

  1. Cheap Wifi stuff which is reliant on a server in China, but is super easy to setup and use... and I think "That's great, but it sucks that it's not local and there are few battery operated devices"
  2. Expensive Zigbee stuff like Philips Hue which is easy to use, works locally but is SUPER over-priced... and I think "That's great, but my grandparents can't afford that"
  3. Inexpensive Zigbee bits and bobs that may or may not work with one system or another but are too complicated for my grandparents to buy into, and I think "Not everyone's grandparents have a Paul Hibbert to help them get this stuff working"

I know for a fact that many manufacturers are choosing Wifi over Zigbee because it's cheaper to manufacture, and it bothers me because although the advantages of Zigbee are totally overstated there ARE still advantages. So I think to myself "I'll make a video that attacks three things":

  1. Philips Hue for being so preposterously over-priced
  2. Zigbee for charging a fee to manufacturers
  3. The sad cases that had attacked me previously for standing up and saying something. By the way, if you took offence to me saying "stop marrying your smart home gear" then you need to stop marrying your smart home gear :joy:

So what was the point?

  1. I want to see a smart home industry that is accessible to all people, not just those of us that have the time and experience to use something like Hubitat.
  2. I want to see a smart home industry that doesn't need massive amounts of money to buy into something like Philips Hue.

How do we get there?

We drive down the price of Zigbee by pushing noobies to something that is cost effective, and (as proved in the video) works just fine for most people. The majority of people just want to be able to control a couple bulbs, maybe a plug socket or two: Wifi is fine for this. If you disagree you are being intentionally obstinant out of some bizarre sense of pride.

Don't get me wrong; Hubitat is making amazing strides toward making a very complicated industry more accessible, but it can't do it alone. The industry is a mess of different standards; even Zigbee is actually two separate standards as it has has both ZHA and ZLL, then there's Zwave, RF, now Wifi is doing the whole mesh thing, and there are new standards on the way, gee I wonder how much they will cost.

You "Zigbee enthusiasts" should probably start worrying about what methods the Zigbee alliance will use to push you into "Connected Home over IP". In case you don't know they are right this second getting into bed with Apple, Amazon, Google, Samsung and Signify and I guarantee they'll be looking for ways to push you into buying it at an even bigger premium. I sincerely worry that there is a cartel on the horizon, if Tuya join them then we are royally screwed and the 'Smart Home' will go the way VR did in the 80's and take years to recover. It's still in its infancy, and people are still very wary of the pay off for investings hundreds of pounds in this stuff.

Perhaps your grandparents are no longer with us, perhaps you only ever buy your door sensors on aliexpress and you think none of this effects you. You should realise that there is a wider market that the smart home industry as a whole relies on to continue its existence; if you can't see how my video helps to maintain balance by pushing Noobies into Wifi then I don't know what to tell you. If you think it's wrong of me to push them into Wifi as a beginner then ask yourself this question: "Would you recommend Hubitat, or Homey, or even Smartthings to your Grandparents"? Would you even recommend it to your Mum and Dad? if the answer is yes, then congratulations, you're alienating all noobies simply out of buyers pride. Hubitat and Zigbee are things you graduate to once you've learnt how to get Alexa to control a Wifi bulb, I'm sure we can all agree on that, I mean, you must have come from that place yourself surely?

So why did I format the video in such a controversial way?

If you mean by mocking people who have clearly married a network standard, then the answer is simple; because it's funny and there's literally nothing controversial about it. If you saw this video as controversial then you are far too emotionally invested in something that 1. doesn't matter and 2. doesn't care about you. Zigbee is not more important than the Smart Home industry as a whole, it is not more important than the elderly and the disabled. If my video wounded your pride then you need to take a good look at what it is in this world that you have chosen to tie your ego to. Stop being a "Zigbee enthusiast" and start being a "Smart Home enthusiast".

Why did I leave things out?
Zigbee's ONLY advantage is the low power consumption for battery operated devices. Once again this was in the video, I didn't try to hide anything and there was nothing disingenuous about my presentation. Before anyone gives me grief about me not discussing mesh it's because there's nothing to discuss. I proved in the previous video that my Philips Hue lamp did not extend the range of my Philips Hue bulb, and I also proved that my Wifi socket went further than my Philips stuff did even with my Wifi mesh repeater turned off. Mesh might be "a thing" on paper but I've never seen it play out in real life; it doesn't work between standards (ZHA and ZLL) and it doesn't work between manufacturers. If anyone is disinguous then it's the Zigbee alliance for allowing the advantages of mesh to be advertised without all the facts. Let's pretend though for the sake of argument that mesh works as advertised; there are now Wifi bulbs purpoertedly doing the exact same thing from companies such as Broadlink. Zigbee Mesh is no longer a valid argument. Zigbee should NOT cost more than Wifi, end of discussion.

I won't be coming back to check on the replies to this, just as I haven't bothered to read any of those above this comment. It's nothing personal; as strongly as I feel about this subject, my mental health is more important. This comment is solely for anyone on the fence about me as a person, and for anyone new to this stuff that is watching my video out of context that can't understand my motivations. One more thing that I shall reiterate from my video; I have loads of Zigbee stuff, you can see that for yourself in my smart home tour, Zigbee is perfect for battery operated devices and I am constantly recommending it as something people graduate to once they're bored of using Alexa to turn a bulb on and off. Guess which hub I'm recommending people use for their Zigbee stuff :wink:

Zigbee has a place in any proper smart home enthusiasts arsenal, but it shouldn't cost more to buy or to manufacture than Wifi gear does. It doesn't seem to matter how many times I say "I don't hate Zigbee. and I don't hate you for buying it" People just love a villain. If you watch my video again through the eyes of a "Smart Home enthusiast" rather than a "Zigbee enthusiast" you'll see there's nothing left out, there's no half truths, there's no lies, and there's no hidden agenda. I want Zigbee to be afforable, and I want to educate people about the myths surrounding Wifi so that we can all have a more versatile smart home industry that isn't monopolised by massive corporations and an alliance that charges a fee just for slapping its name on a product. If that makes me a villain then mwuhahahahahahaha.

I know TLDR right. See you on Youtube

xxx

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Argh!!! Ageism. I am a grandparent who has to help the grandchildren get their stuff working :stuck_out_tongue:

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I think Paul offends every product equally. HomeAssistant, Broadlink, Tuya, ZigBee, and just wait till he comes after the Node-Red guys. :slight_smile:

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While I don't always agree with your takes I enjoy watching your videos and appreciate you trying to help out the maybe less technically oriented consumer.

Thanks for that!

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He's not coming back to read, he said. But then he also said he hadn't read previous comments, so it's left me wondering how he knew there were negative ones.

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Kudos for someone in your position to comment here and put yourself at the mercy of us :slight_smile:

I am a fan, admittedly a Philips Hue loving fan... :slight_smile:

Probably need to spend more time writing a reponse before writing anything too critical.

Simon

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I love Pauls videos, most entertaining, I do think he rants a bit too much at everything but that's part of the beauty

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He can feel free to do so. No one that uses node-red for professional or personal use gives a rip what some YouTube blogger says anyway.

He is entitled to his opinion, of course. But why I should care about it at all is beyond me.

That said I support his right to have and express his opinion freely, and wish him no ill will.

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Keep the good work up Paul, To some around here the truth just hurts to much. Your videos have helped and will help a ton of people. With this HA thing.

The truth according to Paul maybe. :wink: His OPINIONS are not TRUTH.

(not to be pedantic, but words have meaning dang it, and we should use them correctly)

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Is it not customary to welcome someone new like @PaulHibbert to the community...? :slight_smile:

It is pleasing to see even those here that are critical of Paul in any way (at least since his post) are respectful enough to make a point of acknowledging his right to an opinion and no ill will towards him.

For someone to call out their mental health in choosing not to read responses to a post is a sad situation for society in general to find itself in. For someone to post into what he quotes as feeling like a hostile envrionment deserves some level of respect, but I feel a level of discomfort that he feels unwelcome in a community I am part of...

In terms of conveying a point of view, I know that I can get "worked up" when I feel someone is not agreeing with the same information based reasoning I have arrived at. That does not mean that I should make others who don't agree with me feel uncomfortable in any way, nor should they do the same to me. That's not to say it doesn't happen, but it doesn't make it acceptable, and when it does happen those involved should acknowledge it and address it in a respectful and constructive way, in my opinion. I feel the same is true for Paul's videos. Just because he is expressing an opinion based on his own level of analysis, doesn't mean he should feel the degree of antagonism he quotes in his videos. Whether his assessment of his viewers opinions is accurate or not, it should be enough that Paul feels this way for us to sit back and assess our own actions....

I'll admit, like other people here, there are things I whole-heartedly agree with that Paul advocates, and there are things that I don't agree with. In the end I feel Paul is an entertaining, genuine guy. If I'm wrong, in the scheme of things, it doesn't really matter. The idea, for me, is not to get too emotionally invested in these things, nor to get into long-winded arguments about them, I'm here to enjoy the enthusiasm of others in this community and the fun of home automation, without the angst.

Simon

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I just think he made a mistake saying he wouldn't be reading any replies. If he doesn't want to then fine, he just doesn't show up again, but bursting in, making dramatic statements about intent, then flouncing out again always reduce a person's dignity in my eyes, especially as I've yet to meet a person who could stick to that - curiosity nearly always wins :slight_smile: And in my experience, sticking around to discuss your issue and answer questions builds both relationships and respect. He could have brought some people onside, and built empathy.

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On the one hand I agree, it would be nice for someone in Paul's position as a media personality to engage more in the community (I know that's not the point you were making), but to my overall point in my post earlier, should he have to do this for the purpose of managing peoples opinions or feelings? Shouldn't it be enough to put your opinions out there and have a civil discussion, without feeling a need to engage with an audience in order to smooth over any emotions people bring to the table?

Actually that sentiment was kind of included in my comment, although a little hidden I agree. Yes I am disappointed he's not going to stick around, he'd have been an interesting and knowledgeable member of our community, but his image has been spoilt for me by running off like that. And perhaps on principle we should have been allowed a right of (listened-to) reply after being rounded upon like that. I mean it's not like we've all been negative about him.

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A perfect example of what I'm talking about, someone expressing their opinion where they don't agree with me without any fanfare or making me feel bad for having a different opinion.

That said, I tend to agree with part of your last post, I too would have liked to see Paul hang around and be part of the community and provide his unique input into various discussions.

I guess I was cutting him some slack for the heat he has felt, real or otherwise, be it here or elsewhere. I can understand both sides of that debate, and can see your point of view about how it may have helped that situation to engage more here on the community.

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