I don't think it's just dodgy devices - it may be devices barely on the "okay" side of the routing algorithm that causes routes to stick too..
Seems like better diagnostics would be helpful but not sure what HE could do. Would love to be able to tweak the routes directly...
So you guys in this thread convinced me to dump the security, so I've re-included everything without security (with a sole exception for an S0 deadbolt). I got a ton of Inovelli LZW31-SNs, Aeotec Trisensor 3s, and Aeotec Door Sensor 7s rocking and rolling without security.
This paste weekend I tried re-introducing a handful of Fibaro devices; specifically a few motion sensors and flood/water sensors. These devices only support S0 (no S2) so -- as you guys suggest above -- they automatically include with S0. At first I was willing to accept S0 since it was only for a small handful of devices but I started having wonky Zwave mesh delays again.
Based on a suggestion I saw in another thread, I worked around the "have ot use S0" behavior by trigging the Fibaro devices to include using an Aeotec Zstick Gen5+ and PC Controller 5.0 (secondary/inclusion controller). Since I disabled S0 on PC Controller, the devices would include without S0.
So far so good ..
Zwave routing, self healing, magic, didn't seem to work for me.
Since moving from C4 to C7, I discovered that I had two Aeotech Smart Switch 6's (ZwavePlus) that showed they were communicating at 40kbps and they would not go faster.
Another Smart Switch 6 I have WAS connected at 100kbps, so I knew they were capable of connecting at the higher speed.
One of the units also had 2 other devices routing through it which I thought wasn't good.
In an attempt to improve connection speed with these devices, I bit the bullet and I excluded and re-included them and now they joined at 100kbps and have been sitting there for the last couple of months ! Happy.
The routing is totally baffling to me. I have 2 complete head scratchers right now:
These 2 switches are both Jasco switches in the same 2-gang box taking crazy different routes
Then this one is really annoying me because it's literally 3' line of sight between 40 and 52 and 40 is a range extender with a 100kbps connection 1 hop from the C-7.
I'm trying really hard to not let it bother me because it's all working fine - I think this Z-Wave Details page maybe gives a little bit TMI in the sense that it gives you the info, but you can't seem to actually do anything about it, so it just drives me nuts.
THIS ^^^
Do not look at the man behind the curtain. 
If things are working then the best approach is to walk away. I never look at my Z-Wave Details page unless something is acting up. And in fact. majority of my issues over time have been related to apps/automations and things I've done that needed adjusting. Few if any resolved by mucking about in that page. 
I think the line was “don’t pay any attention to that man behind the curtain” but it had been some time since I watched it. Also, I am guilty of using the phrase often.
LOL...and my wifes paraphrase is "Don't pay any attention to that man." while pointing at me. 
Unlocking all your doors and removing all passwords from your computers definitely makes life "easier"... but not just for you. I realize that this forum leans to "share it with the world" but It's worth the effort to secure your network IMHO. I've been successful with my home (100+ ... hella maybe 200+ at this point) and with every friend who I've helped. It's not hard to do with a little investigation and testing.
I generally put locks on my outside doors and encrypt important data.
I don't have deadbolts on my linen closet and I don't encrypt my pictures.
Same thing with automation. I use security on the devices that provide protection, but not everything.
While doing security on the locks makes obvious sense, I have not seen any Z-Wave attacks against locks hit the crime reports so far (other than by MtM which S0 encryption can't prevent). In contrast, this area has seen numerous methods of wireless profiling deployed a week or two prior to focused, targeted thefts. Stuff across the entire spectrum--from wifi packet analysis to medical device frequency analysis. Local police have apprehended the individuals who set up the scans-- Gig workers who were told they were subcontracted from a high tech company who wasn't involved. Current LEO beliefs are that the scale of the presentation/deception and the quick, clean efforts involved indicate criminal organizations. They don't have much to pin it on any group out here, but there have been 2 large orgs shut down in New York and Florida in 2019 which are still awaiting trial.
So the long and short is that what you emit from your house can provide valuable profile information. Given that I exist within both the neighborhoods and the community beiing profiled for these attacks, I'm doing everything I can to limit risk. (other than turning off tech entirely, which isn't a practical choice for many reasons)
I prefer the people using tech to break in over smash & Grab, less mess to deal with. As long as no ones home. IF they want in that bad there's nothing that will stop them. If they want to hack into my networks have fun any data worth protecting is encrypted that's all I can do. I wouldn't lose sleep over no security or using S0 or S2. Use the guns or a call to 911 is the real thing to contemplate 
if they are able to connect to my Zwave network consistently from long range I'll ask them for some tech support.
Provide a link to substantiate this please.
Might I suggest...
https://www.amazon.com/Shielding-Solutions-EMF-Paint-HSF54/dp/B007A0RTES/
Of course, unless you want a house painted black, you'll likely need several top coats of normal paint...
Yes. The old saying "locks only keep honest people out" is still valid regardless of the lock technology. Someone determined isn't going to care if the lock is zwave. honestly, they'll break a window after they try kicking the door a few times. No standard criminal is going to spend time trying to hack a zwave/zigbee/bluetooth/whatever lock. Only reason to do that would be to get in/out without anyone noticing, which is usually reserved for clandestine operations...
Now I want to go watch some more Lock Picking Lawyer...
lol that's priceless!!!
Not really answering you @rob9 since you kow this already, but for anyone new who thinks I'm not replying...
There's a well-established pattern on this forum that when I post data points and LMGTFY, I receive abuse and threats, then I get banned, the threads are removed, and the people who were abusive remain.
So I think we can say there's really no reason in the world I would ever voluntarily engage in those discussions again here. There's no way I could stand to gain anything from it, and I lose the ability to track things that are still necessary for me, like new messages from people using my code, updates on bugs I and others have reported, etc.
Further, I refer to this as my own analysis, the exact data points of which would reveal PII about me and others which I don't feel comfortable sharing. I think everyone needs to do their own. If you live somewhere that affords significant distance from your neighbors, or have detailed knowledge of your neighbors in the way that an urban environment doesn't provide for, your risk scenario is entirely different from mine. If you are not taking care of elderly people actively being targetted, your risk profile differs from mine.
So let's leave this as "I have decided that this is important to me" and I may go so far as to mention the concern when I see others pushing people to disable security. Reminding them that there can be consequences to consider is where I'm going to stop. That I've raised the point in the past has led several people to do their own research and find things of interest to them. We discuss it elsewhere, so as to avoid getting banned again here 
I want to be helpful to those who might benefit from a different perspective. I see no value in any zero-sum death-match everyone-must-agree-any-outlier-is-wrong argument, so I'm not going to engage in them.
I am only replying to remind you that I've never discussed locks. Locks also aren't very useful when they knock on the door in a uniform asking for a delivery signature either.
I have different defenses for smash-n-grab than home invasion. Smash-n-grab is at an all-time low where I live. Home invasion has never been higher.
You cannot simplify security to a single layer.
IME Z-Wave devices will not re-route until a change is necessary. This contributes to overall stability of the mesh. But likewise, removing routing elements will cause new paths to emerge.
Nightly refreshes do not IME change routing from what I've seen YMMV. They might fix a broken path that the node hasn't discovered yet
Didn’t say you had. This phrase is the standard among any security professional. Your security is only as good as the weakest part. Good door and lock, they’ll just break a window. Every. Time. No one who is just in it for theft is going to bother spending time compromising a Zwave mesh to open a lock. Try simple codes, maybe. But not for long...
A pattern that I, and others, have noticed is that when asked for qualifying data points, an "I've posted it all before and received abuse for it" message is posted, along with "I'll never post on this topic again." This pattern has been repeated in multiple discussions, both on this forum and on at least one other.
Several folk have searched for prior posts that included actual data points, and have found none. This obviously calls into question the existence / validity of the data. This can easily be addressed by reposting the data points here. Please.
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