After pulling a few switches out of the wall in my “new” old house, looks like many are wired without neutral. So, I’m wanting to wire with smart dimmers. Some are single pole. Some are 3-pole.
Recommendations would be greatly appreciated!
I’m fairly new to Hubitat, but have 25+ Zigbee devices successfully up and running now. I don’t want an additional hub req if possible. Zigbee or Zwave preferred.
Thank you for anyone that can guide me!
Are you saying there are no neutrals in the box at all? Typically they're bundled together and crammed in the back.
Not in the UK. It’s actually fairly unusual to have a neutral at the switch at all. Up until fairly recently the most common method of wiring for lights is to loop a line and neutral in an out of each ceiling position and take a twin cable (line/switched line) from each fitting to the corresponding switch. Even when rewiring older properties that is/was the norm (or junction boxes were used to bring switch and load cables together)
But the op didn’t mention location….
My older 1969 built house has no neutrals. I have been inside the majority of the boxes and there are only black, white, and ground, One of the few things about the house I can’t change easily.
Lutron Caseta all the way any day, as long as you're good with the style. I have about 30 of them and they are fantastic. They have lots of models that don't require neutral and their integration is rock solid. You'll need their pro hub. As an added bonus their Pico remotes are super handy button controllers too.
This is indeed common for older houses in the US. The neutral is up in the ceiling fixture box, with a “switch leg” going down into the box at the wall, like in this diagram:
I believe there are some newer Innovelli and maybe Zooz Z-wave dimmers that advertise as no-neutral required. Aeotec also makes Z-wave in-wall modules that don’t always require a neutral connection.
But I second @brad5’s suggestion to consider Lutron Caseta. The fact that a Caseta Pro bridge is required should be considered a non-issue, really (although it does add to the cost of installation). They are just that good and totally worth it.
And @fuzz.iot is correct; it’s possible to use both dimmers and switches in the Caseta line without a neutral connection (if you buy the right model #).
I'm aware much older houses had/have no neutral, but it's easier to say "are you sure there are no neutrals" instead of "how old is the house? Has it ever been renovated? Did they pull new electrical when it was?"
I have lighting that is controlled by a light switch and an electrical outlet- with the lighting being a lamp. That doesn't seem to have a neutral. I don't know if that what you would expect though or not.
Thank you @brad5. I appreciate the input and will likely just go the Lutron path. I’ve already replaced many of the plates with Lutron, so the look will be right. Thanks again for your recommendation.
Thanks @marktheknife. Your spot on with the wiring diagram. Think I’ll just go the Lutron path as I probably need about 10 or more switches, so will just suck it up and go with what works. God willing, I’ll be here for 30 years:) Appreciate your input!
Unless it's too late, I have an additional recommendation.
Although Lutron Caseta switches are great, they also cost approximately twice as much as other switches. They are completly reliable and dependable.
However, if you are still looking at other alternatives, I highly recommend the GE Enbrighten Zwave (no neutral) switch. It works with just one small bulb, easy to wire (Quick FIT and Simpliwire), and it's much less expensive that Lutron Caseta.
Your choice.
@ScottyW
Here's a question that's related:
Can anyone recommend a no-neutral dual switch (as in two separate circuits), ideally single gang?
As far as I know, the only no neutral smart dual-switch available is one from Aqara. Not Hubitat-compatible, but it does work with HA (using z2m), so it can be brought back into Hubitat using HADB.
Thanks @jtmpush18. I’ll definitely take a look at GE also. Today is research day to make a decision.
Hello.
From what I understand, you want a no-neutral dual switch, that's single gang.
I can recommend something, if (it's a big if), you have ROOM in your switch box.
Get a simple two switch, single gang, like this:
https://www.amazon.ca/Leviton-5643-W-Decora-Traditional-Combination/dp/B003AVLWMG/ref=sr_1_27?crid=13JG8KUEA2WHD&keywords=decora+style+two+switch&qid=1669557192&qu=eyJxc2MiOiIxLjQxIiwicXNhIjoiMC4wMCIsInFzcCI6IjAuMDAifQ%3D%3D&sprefix=decora+style+tw%2Caps%2C411&sr=8-27
(I'm sure that there are others that are cheaper, YMMV)
get the following, in-wall relay from alieexpress (no neutral, dual channel, zigbee 3.0)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003737195274.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.541f5d6f4cF82M&algo_pvid=bd9a844f-dbea-4634-bac2-aab3ace616c2&algo_exp_id=bd9a844f-dbea-4634-bac2-aab3ace616c2-1&pdp_ext_f={"sku_id"%3A"12000026984923707"}&pdp_npi=2%40dis!CAD!21.29!6.67!!!!!%402101fd4b16695573950873996e46c9!12000026984923707!sea&curPageLogUid=p84QbPtjWPgq
P.S. If you can fit all of this into a North American box, you're a magician!
Just for clarity, for others who may be reading this thread, the 2011 NEC (National Electrical Code) was the first electrical code to require a neutral at each switch. If your house was wired before 2011 it MIGHT have switch loops at SOME of the switch locations. This is true for the USA and Canada, I don't know for other areas of the world.
Not sure what qualifies for "much older houses", but in regards to the possibility of having switch loops, the year is 2011. After this it became against the electrical code to install them. (Note in a few areas of the country, local rules did not allow for switch loops before 2011, but 2011 was the NEC change).
Therefore even if your house has been renovated and during the renovation they installed new electrical wire, you may have switch loops if the renovation happened before 2011.
I think a house built in 1969, like the one I was quoting, would qualify as a much older house.
White should be neutrak, black is hot
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