@Eric_Inovelli:
I actually have a couple Homeseer switches and like the idea (and use) to show a location or particular item status as a combination of which LED and color. But I like the look of your full LED bar (cleaner) better. I did not know it had segments. I personally would like that option (even if it is off by default) as long as it has at least 5 segments. Plus it helps me know the level something is set for (although that is more important on our ceiling fans, which this does not apply to).
As for the full paddle color... I think that would be great (minimum 2 segments, top/bottom, but would prefer at least 5 with 3rd in the middle). For those that would not want it, there are multiple options.
Disable the feature.
Include 3 additional swappable paddles. Black, white, and ivory, or make those options. Those could block the LEDs and not have the "pearly translucent" look the paddle would likely have. For people that want a "subtle" glow the paddles could have break off edges. That way the main section would not glow, but someone could have a "halo" effect on any combination of side(s) around the paddle.
That way it gives people a whole series of options without much added cost and it would look like an almost normal switch when the LEDs are off (the minimum telltale would be the air-gap switch).
Yeah, it's a pretty cool feature. I wasn't a huge fan of the dots on the side of the switch (nothing against it, just preference) so we went with the LED bar. It actually has 7 different LED's inside of it, but the effect of plastic over the LED's gives it more of a bar effect (as opposed to 7 levels of LED's lighting up individually). We tried to mimic the Echo blue bar (or I think Ring's keypad has it).
For the paddle idea -- are you wanting the LED Paddle + an LED Bar or just the Paddle to have LED's? The LED's start to get expensive as they're dimming LED's too, but it could be something to explore. I think you could definitely have the transparent paddle and your other solves would work fine (in theory... i'm no engineer!)
Keep the ideas flowing, this is great and what we did to create our Gen 2 switches. I really appreciate it!
This would be a niche product, but what I want is an outlet for my space heater. I'd like the outlet to require a keep alive signal sent to it or it will turn off. That way if there is a hub/app issue, I go to a safe state.
@Eric_Inovelli:
I definitely prefer the single smoother bar look you folks have. Individual LED control behind it will be nice if it happens as it could even allow some creative color effects where they blend.
As for the paddle LED idea, I would only have LEDs behind the paddle itself. That way if someone wants the diffused paddle (nightlight, indications, even just where the switch is at night) they have it. If the paddles have the breakaway edges, someone can get the simple LED glow they want from any side or part. If they do not want any LED they can turn them off with any paddle. Trying to cover almost all bases. Wish I could do a quick mockup of what I am thinking... Maybe tonight.
@JasonJoel: Curious, why would you not buy one with LEDs behind the paddle if there were still ways to see them (or not). Not disputing or anything, just want to test my use cases and the overall feasibility.
@JasonJoel:
OK, totally understand that. That is why I was saying alternative paddles are needed. Not only do they help match the overall switch color to decor (why else would people buy black or ivory switches) but could let the LEDs act as a halo effect. Would a glow from a side (any side, or a portion of the longer sides I imagine) of the paddle work, or would it have to be something separate like they all are now?
Yeah we could also make it so the LED's under the paddle could be disabled as well. But again, adding 3-5 or so LED's and the bar would be pretty expensive. Something to consider though.
Also, it would likely be an extra $50-70k for reverts (UL, Z-Wave, etc) + Tooling & R&D. But we will eventually have to redo them when the 700 Series chip comes out.
It's definitely something to put on the scratch pad though!
@Eric_Inovelli: I think any method of lighting the paddle itself would be a replacement to the current bar design. Having both a translucent "lit" paddle AND a lit bar seems like it would be too much.
The closest workaround I can see (where there is just one bar but the switch handles both "audiences") is to have the LED bar be closer to the center line of the switch, with a narrow paddle for those that do not want a lit paddle, but do want the LED bar. A normal width translucent paddle would cover over it and be back-lit.
While I'm not trying to diminish @snell's request at all - everyone has different opinions/use cases... I like the design exactly the way it is now.
That's always a challenge on design... Everyone's tastes are different, and infinite options/flexibility is not cost feasible at a price point most will pay.
@JasonJoel: No disagreement there. I am trying to come up with something that could work out... but it mostly involves an interchangeable faceplate & paddle... under those two pieces would be light guides to shift the light either to the bar version (faceplate #1 we'll say) with standard paddle or to the translucent paddle. But I cannot see an easy way to justify the expense of 4 molds (12+ SKUs) without a pretty good business case to justify that level of expense.
Could you expand on this a bit more? We'll definitely be launching both plug-in modules + in-wall outlets (plug-ins have been kicked off, but we definitely have time to expand on it).
Let’s say I am running an electric space heater that is plugged into a remote plug. If the hub/zwave controller breaks, and the plug is on, it will never turn off.
What I am proposing is a deadman plug that the hub has to update the on command every x minutes, or it will turn off for safety. Watchdog timer is another name for this application.
@napalmcsr:
Or a countdown switch/plug? We have countdown switches for each of our bathroom fans, so you press the switch and it runs the fan for however long the countdown is (5min, 10, 15, 30, 60 and On settings I think). It has an LED by each setting so as it counts down it is slowly blinking through them, then drops to the next level once it hits that.
What you are asking for is something like that, right? A plug that can take a time initially and then count down on it's own unless it gets told to keep going. If it does not receive the "keep going" command (basically told to run again before it runs out) it turns off. Pretty nice actually, it would allow for a self-contained timer that you only need to send the initial On command to.
The heating element could be rough though... Those have a lot of power draw, so it would be a beefy relay (I think in the US the law is that space heaters have a max rating of 1500W and most try to make use of it).
Still, I see this being useful. I have wanted a "smart" bathroom switch for our fans for a while. It would still need the current physical options but being able to have it sense (or be controlled for) humidity as well would be awesome.
Eric,
I commend you and your team for making the switches smaller (less depth). I can't tell you how many times I've struggled to get a zwave switch into those small boxes, and how many times I've cursed all those extra wires that the electricians left in.
Will this get even easier with the new generation of zwave chips, or is this the limit?
Also, will all your switches be UL certified when they go on sale?
Also, at present, there is usually a 1 second delay in switch action when using the switch manually. The new switches???
@Eric_Inovelli:
A redesign of the outdoor plugs coming maybe? I have both indoor and outdoor plugs from you folks that I use for Christmas decorations primarily.
The 2 plugs on the outdoor one is definitely a plus over the GE /Jasco 4201 although I will admit it is a bit bulky and the plug covers could be made of a more flexible rubber. The button is also a bit small to deal with when wearing gloves in the winter but that is a nit for me.
I was thinking on this last night... Someone correct me if I am wrong, but I think it should be pretty easy to add "countdown" capability to any switch. They all have to have a timing ability in their chip, even rough ones equivalent to millis() or seconds() would be more than accurate enough. Then a couple variables for if the countdown is enabled, what the length is set for, and the current countdown. Should be possible to do them as a firmware update.
On the new 7 segment LED bar, it would even be able to provide feedback on how much longer is left! Too bad it does not work for a bathroom fan (wrong load and only for dimmers) but the general feature set would be there. On the single-LED on/off switches it could use brightness as an indicator or flash rate.
@Eric_Inovelli or anyone more knowledgeable... Am I wrong on this path? Altering the Hubitat drivers to use it would be pretty simple by comparison.
It would be. Although easy is relative... Everything is a pain in the ■■■ on the firmware side of 500 series zwave due to the development environment and tools. Would take about 30 seconds on a 700 series device though, based on my time on the gecko dev system.
But I agree that a countdown should be doable from a technical standpoint if they have any memory left on the device for more features.
