New C7 hub, Aeotec Dual Nano & Multisensor6 issue... Australia

The current dual nano driver does not support security, when including it you will need to uncheck all the security grants options in the S2 security dialog.

We will look into updating the driver with S2 support.

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Oh. That'll mean I have half my mesh on S2 and half not... I have Nano Dimmers with Wallswipes in the bedrooms and a few other rooms and these are supported by Dual Nano Switches to do non-dimmable lights and things like bathroom fans (on/off only). Not sure how good my mesh will be after the migration now :neutral_face:

Also having the Dual Nanos on S0 has seemed to drag the mesh down to 9.6kbps too, from 40-100 which it was at with everything (bar the single Fibaro switch) meshed at S2.

Hopefully the S2 driver will happen pretty quickly, as the Dual Nanos have been around a while and do seem to be deployed in a lot of places. I look forward to updating to the new driver when it is available! (Ping me if you want a tester.)

Is No Encryption not an option, until the S2 drivers get sorted, seeing as you must have been using them that way originally ?
You’d then at least not have the bandwidth penalty that using S0 has.

For now I've added all the Dual Nanos with just S0 (the single join click, flashes green until it is included) and the Nano Dimmers in S2 (double click to include, flashes blue until done rather than green; I did these first, else I'd probably have just gone S0 everywhere).

If there's any way of adding the Dual Nanos that is S2 but without encryption, I'd be happy to hear how and try it. But for now they seem happy enough as old S0 devices. It's just me wanting to get this new mesh as perfect as possible that isn't 100% happy with that.

when joining untick all the boxes.

We must be including them differently... I have not gotten any boxes to check/uncheck with the C7. I only get a 'name' to fill in (that is pre-populated with the device type as the name, if it knows what it is).


Have you checked that your on the latest firmware?

As part of my mesh migration, I've been ensuring all the Aeotec devices are on the latest firmware. (This is one reason it's taking me quite some time to migration... but worth it - firmware is always one of those 'must get around to it' jobs when you have to unscrew a wall plate!)

Best to factory reset them once you have done a firmware update, as your migrating you may aswell. I have had some odd things happen before and a factory reset fixed it. But I ment the firmware of the hub? As the C-7 has some changes for z-wave so you should have a option to select what security level you want per device.

Thanks for the clarifications:

  • As part of the Aeotec firmware update process, I'd manually hold in the button to 'hard reset' the units after I'd done all the updates and excluded them from the (update) controller. Some units more than once, given I was stuffing around trying to get that Dual Nano working.
  • The C7 prompted me for an update to which I've done. If there are any other updates I should be doing, please let me know - I haven't found anywhere else that asks for updates.

This is it, now when you go to Z-wave pairing and the device pairs, do you get a option with tick boxes?

I’ve paired over a dozen Z-Wave devices this weekend, both ‘secure’ and ‘non secure’ modes. Never had any pop ups.

All I get under device discovery, under z-wave inclusion is the box that lets you see the node number and some details and lets you give it a name. No selections, check boxes or anything else. Sorry!

I'm going on what others have said as I haven't gotten round to joining a z-wave device yet so @bcopeland might be able to confirm here?

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The C-7 can, for the first time, join devices with S2.

The C-3, C-4, and C-5 can all join devices with no security or S0.

S0 is the 'chatty', single Key per hub, Security profile. S2 is not as chatty and offers a Key per device.

For the C-3, C-4, and C-5, the recommendation was to join devices with No Security, unless required for Locks and Garage Door Openers, and there was one choice for Secure Join --> S0

Today the recommendation is much the same with one minor enhancement. Join devices either with no-security OR S2. For Locks and GDO, join using the security it supports, which means historically, probably still S0.

S2 capable devices are new'ish and therefore much of our existing kit will still want to be joined using no-security, because S0 is still not advised due to it's chatty nature. (3x packets)

A single click to join is probably 'no-security' while a double click is probably S0. Most S2 capable devices will offer the Security popup on the C-7. If you remove all the selections, you're joining the device as no-security.

To repeat, for most of our ZWave devices that have been installed in our homes for more than 6-8 months, they probably support only no-security or S0 and you should continue to lean towards no-security. For many, the S2 devices we have are installed already and pulling them just to get the S2 code needed during join is a burden, so join them with no-security, as always :slight_smile:

[[This was my attempt to make it LESS confusing :smiley: but now that I see the number of words, I'm wondering if I need to go back and simplify my simplification :smiley: ]]


Thanks @csteele for your detailed reply - it certainly does make things clearer, at least for me! :+1: :nerd_face:

I can't speak for other devices, since I'm mostly Aeotec Nanos here... but when I had the Nano Dimmer on the latest firmware, hard reset (the status light was doing the rainbow dance) and I double-clicked to include, it flashed its blue inclusion thing, followed by a green to indicate it was successfully included. (It flashes red if it fails, then goes back to rainbow dancing.)

The C7 just popped up a "name it" dialog with some details (I think an identifier) but that's it. Then I get the following details under device data:

  • deviceType: 515
  • zwaveSecurePairingComplete: true
  • inClusters: 0x5E,0x86,0x72,0x5A,0x73,0x98,0x85,0x59,0x25,0x26,0x27,0x32,0x70,0x81,0x71,0x2C,0x2B,0x7A
  • zwNodeInfo: D3 9C 80 04 11 01 5E 86 72 5A 73 98 85 5C 59 25 26 27 32 70 81 71 2C 2B 7A EF 82 68 23 F1 00 85 5C 59 25 26 27 32 70 73 81 71 2C 2B 7A 5A
  • outClusters: 0x82
  • secureInClusters: 0x85,0x59,0x25,0x26,0x27,0x32,0x70,0x73,0x81,0x71,0x2C,0x2B,0x7A,0x5A
  • deviceId: 111
  • S2: 128
  • manufacturer: 134

Now to me, that S2 seems to suggest it has been included in S2 mode... but I'm making an assumption here, based on the obvious... which isn't always a good assumption! However the 6x Nano Dimmers all show this in their inclusion and work just fine. Setting pass to them; they can respond instantly to requests (on/off/level/transitions).

I can include the Dual Nano Switches in the same way. They show similar data (with the S2 field) and are identified either as "Aeotec Dual Nano Switch" or just "Device" depending on how far the discovery process has gone.

However the Dual Nanos will not work when included in S2 mode (the blue flashy light method). If I use the single click include (green flashy lights, the whole way) then they do not show an S2 field at all. Example Dual Nano data field:

  • deviceType: 515
  • inClusters: 0x5E,0x25,0x27,0x32,0x81,0x71,0x60,0x8E,0x2C,0x2B,0x70,0x86,0x72,0x73,0x85,0x59,0x7A,0x5A
  • zwNodeInfo: 9C 00 04 10 01 5E 25 27 32 81 71 60 8E 2C 2B 70 86 72 73 85 5C 59 7A 5A EF 82 68 23
  • outClusters: 0x82
  • deviceId: 132
  • manufacturer: 134

It seems the Aeotec Nano range are 'gen 5' and 'Z-Wave Plus' (again - my assumption this means the 500 series or 'S2' capable devices). I have a fair few of both dimmer and dual switches in my house already and was waiting for my C7 before adding about another dozen... so getting me getting the inclusions correct now is better than redoing it when they're all in the wall again!

Thanks everyone for your help so far. I'm trying to document my issues with enough detail that it helps with troubleshooting but also if others have similar issues... I hope that helps a bit too!

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There's a resource to know all about your devices: ZWave Alliance Certification Database.

The Aeon/Aeotec Nano Dimmer details show it does not support S2 but does support S0 at 128 bits.

Screen Shot 2020-08-03 at 7.08.29 AM

Which I think explains Hubitat's S2 field. It's not exclusively S2 :frowning:

Therefore, I believe you've included your devices at S0 and are going to have a much slower mesh than you'd like.

You can lookup any certified device and find the details.

The Dual Nano's show the same table for No S2

Double clicking to join for Aeon products does mean "join securely" but only at the security level it supports... which is S0 for the 500 series devices.

The Aeon Recessed Door Sensor 7, for example has a different answer to the S2 question:

Screen Shot 2020-08-03 at 7.17.07 AM

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Thank you for clarifying that further - good information to know. Now I'll be going back and re-adding all my Nano Dimmers in the 'green' mode to speed up my mesh!

Thanks for all the assistance - great community here.

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First post but just to say that with my Fibaro wall sockets each time I added them it came up with the pop up box asking about security and then prompting for the 5 digit code on the socket to pair them as S2 if I didn't untick the box (as a newbie I ended up with half secure attached and half not secure once I read how to switch it off). My Aeon/Aeotec multisensor's however never came up with the pop up/prompt and just paired in secure mode when I just went to check the devices. I have switched away from the builtin C7 driver because I am using an external sensor to provide the light level/luminance and it was only reporting every hour. Using this driver lets me tweak the options. -


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Aeon makes Secure and Insecure joining easy... Click the button once, it joins insecure. To get it to join Securely, the manuals say to click the button twice, quickly.

There are other devices that have no button and no way to limit Secure. An EcoLink Tilt Sensor, is an example, I hear. You put it into Include/Exclude by removing, waiting, then inserting the Battery. It will join Securely S0, which is undesirable in many cases, perhaps most cases. It doesn't have S2 and thus no Popup is shown.

Putting aside the known S2 Joining issues the first release of the C-7 has (a proposed fix is in Beta Test) you may Join the Fibaro with S2 and the popup will usually offer 3 preselected buttons. That's the correct selection, go ahead and use it. If you want them to join insecurely, you'll want to deselect ALL of the options. There's no penalty for S2, so it's a very useful option to accept... just not today. Wait for the fix.

The Aeon MultiSensor 6 doesn't support S2, so the 'correct' join method is insecure, because you want to avoid S0. Single click. Which the MultiSensor doesn't make exactly easy. I have a dozen at least and I open the back and flick the lever. I can feel the click better. :slight_smile:

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