My z-wave frustrations - mesh issues?

There is no way to force it. You just have to wait. In the snippet of devices that you posted, all include the cluster type 0x5E, which indicates that they are Z-Wave Plus, which constantly and automatically self-route in the background. My routing tables seem to churn all the time. The routes you see are simply snapshots in time. Be patient.

5 Likes

Thank you. I was trying to ensure they were all Plus so as to avoid issues, I will exercise some more patience :slight_smile:

image

2 Likes

When trying to explain to my better half why the lights won't turn on when she shouts at Alexa that is sometimes how I feel :laughing:

2 Likes

Does anyone know what kind of latency is introduced when a device hops through a repeater (or two) instead of going directly to the hub? 1ms? 0.1ms? 0.01ms?

What hub firmware version are you on?

The screenshot you posted from z-wave details appears to show 0 errors (PER) on all devices, so likely the devices don't think there is anything that needs healing...

If there is a device you want to try to get onto a different route, you might have success with single device repair (or it might make things worse)...

That's an interesting point. I am not really clear what all the values mean so thanks for the explanation. The issue I notice is that when trying to control the Living Room and Front Hallway lights is a delay of 4-10 seconds from issuing the command to the light coming on (if it does), and the hub regularly loses track of the actual status (like messages are not getting back to say "I am now on")

2.2.6.140
Waiting for all the incremental fixes on 2.2.7 before I commit to the latest.

To add, 24 hours later the ZWave Mesh Details app now reports the following:

@david20: Hubitat added a metering function to groups recently (in the 2.2.6 firmware branch.) I was having similar issues to you. I put the devices I wanted to turn on/off together into a group...set the group metering to 75 ms (is more "stable" than a 50 ms setting), and used the group name in automation. This has helped. I turn on/off 5 lights at once and according to the logs, I get approximately 0.750 seconds from the first on to the last on (and first off to the last off).

There is something in the hub that appears to "clog up" with outbound Z-Wave messaging. When I was having issues, inbound data would always make it through, but outbound appeared to be getting clogged at the hub.

Putting the devices in a group and turning on the group metering to 75 ms helped a lot.

The new 2.2.7 has patch notes about improving Z-Wave outbound stuff...after I updated to 2.2.7, things appear to be more stable on the Z-Wave front.

5 Likes

Agreed! I just read this and thought "...I pretty much only use Zigbee devices - what am I missing?"

Zigbee works well for me!

I am on the opposite end.. I am 98% Z-Wave

2 Likes

I'm 60 (zwave)/40 (Zigbee).

But that is only because I picked up a bunch of cheap Zigbee leak sensors and temperature/humidity sensors.

Either can work. Neither protocol is rubbish, although both have DEVICES that are rubbish for sure.

I have a whole drawer full of Zigbee devices that aren't fully compliant and either drop off the mesh, or break other devices on the mesh... For example. Most of which have a pretty Zigbee logo stamped right on them, like they should be compliant.

That doesn't mean Zigbee is rubbish though.

5 Likes

:point_up_2: Truth

2 Likes

I am going to update the subject of this thread, you are absolutely correct, although I hope I have not picked any rubbish devices in my setup so far (at least on the z-wave side).

It feels like each time I add another z-wave device the network gets a little better, although I am concerned about the Heatit Z-TRM3. It has a repeater in the same room (directly in front on the opposite side of the room, 3m distant) has a great signal strength, but all other stats seem to show comms with it are terrible. I am also using Hubigraphs LTS to store values it reports for temp, power, etc. and they are sporadic at best.

I will continue to build and monitor and will report back once I've done the 2.2.7 update and/or installed any further devices.

I would do this as 2.2.7 has some work on this exact subject.

I've done the update and now my entire mesh of Z-wave devices has stopped communicating. No status updates from devices (e.g. current reporting, power reporting, etc) and no ability to control devices. I am also not seeing any entries in the z-wave logs from the z-wave settings page so have created a new topic about that:

1st thing I try if the mesh is completely dead is to do a shutdown on the hub, and remove power for 30-60s to fully reboot the zwave radio.

Might not help, but won't hurt either.

4 Likes

So I did as suggested shut down the hub and on startup the z-wave devices worked for a short time - about a day - and then stopped again. I am now in the situation that I have a completely dead z-wave mesh again.
It feels to me like 2.2.7.126 has caused my entire mesh to die, and it seems like the hub has no viable tools in it to help me understand why.
Whilst the hub has a button for z-wave logs I am told they dont show all messages, and should not be trusted (since 2.2.7.126 I have not seen a single message show on there), and the app z-wave mesh details shows be nothing any more:


I really thought Hubitat was a quality system, but I am starting to wonder whether there is any point in trying to persist with these z-wave devices.

  1. it does not work
  2. it does not report any errors (or in fact any useful logs)
  3. it gives me nothing useful for understanding how to solve the problem

I really am at the end of my tether with this, and considering pulling all the z-wave kit and selling on ebay. Surely there is something which I can do to sort this out.

Just a thought, but have you tried turning off power reporting and see if that makes it more reliable.

It is a complete shot in the dark but certain power reporting devices have been known to overwhelm the Zwave radio. Zooz has a double plug and a power strip device that is known for this. I actually had the double plug device and it immediately caused me issues. It ended up being a no go as i needed power reporting for the specific need i was going to use it for.

3 Likes

At this point I do not have the ability to change the settings, but given there are only 6 devices of which 2 are passive repeaters I would be surprised if the small number of messages once a minute to report power/status would be causing my issues.

As soon as I have the ability to communicate with devices and turn it off I will do to see if it creates any kind of stability.