My experience with HE

Yes, you are correct, these devices still get notifications while asleep. However, these devices, while asleep, will save power for quite a bit of time by dropping/minimizing the WiFi connection. This is, as @roberto mentioned, a designed power saving feature. The iPhones and iPads will still wake up the WiFi connection periodically, check to see if there is anything to do or receive, and then go back into this power savings mode.

The iPhone HTTP Presence Sensor driver polls the device via a HTTP call to see if it is on the WiFi network about every 1 minute. While aspleep, iOS devices will stop responding for a decent chunk of time, and then resume responding for a while, then stop responding, etc... This is the phone trying to save battery life by minimizing its use of its WiFi radio. It also explains why the HTTP Presensce Sensor method is only part of a solution for presence detection.

If there is a magic set of iOS settings that would keep the phone's WiFi active the whole time (without trashing battery life), many of us would be very interested in know what those settings are.

UPDATE: Once home, I ran a quick PING test against my iPhone 11 and my iPad Pro (WiFi only) and both devices failed to respond to ping requests about 80% of the time when their screens were off (i.e. asleep.). Both devices start responding to ping requests for a short period of time, and then they stop for a while, start for a while, stop for a while. It is very consistent and appears to be deliberate.

Whilst I appreciate the discussion,
My router is up-to-date
All my useful devices have static IPs
location services is on
Background app & mobile data are active
My wifi aint the issue.

Now if y'all had this much information on how to get my geofence to be working we'd be laugh'n ~!

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The past 2 days have been bliss on Locative (not to jinx myself)
Both phones, coming and going, not bouncing out of the fence and me not having to hide the step ladder from the mrs because of the siren~!

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Here's an interesting one,
It seems either pushover @mike.maxwell had an error and crashed my hub

or possibly the harmony driver crashed it ? @ogiewon

Any thoughts on what might be the issue ?
I noticed some foul play this morning but didnt want to restart the hub on a hunch so left it, but then noticed the mrs hadnt left the house/no pushover message so checked and found it sitting there working, with events that hadnt been logged.

Restarted it and it came up that the zigbee stick had stopped working,

Restarted it again and it seems to be back up.

Any ideas either @bobbyD ?

Hmm, clicked my remotec zwave switch, then had to wait 20 something odd seconds for the light group to switch on.

dev:3562020-02-12 07:45:43.113 pm [info] four livingroom lights switch was turned on

dev:6802020-02-12 07:45:43.097 pm [info] Hue AL 1 was turned on

dev:6842020-02-12 07:45:42.909 pm [info] Hue AL 3 was turned on

dev:6852020-02-12 07:45:42.857 pm [info] Hue AL 4 was turned on

dev:6842020-02-12 07:45:39.778 pm [info] Hue AL 2 was turned on

dev:912020-02-12 07:45:27.036 pm [info] Remotec Switch button 2 was doubleTapped

Not sure where to go or what to do with this (system).
Im just getting tired of the inconsistency.
So, Locative has been bang on for months, but then all of a sudden its slow, it took 25mins to reg I had left the house.
Did a shut down restart the other day and then all my zwave - mains powered devices take forever to reg movement.
Pushover just stopped working one day. Came home, clicked save and it started working again.

I just want to build it to a point and then let it run, but I cant. Things get slow, things stop working. Tried with bobby but after awhile he stops answering or doesnt explain things fully then doesnt come back to me with an answer.

Ive had great times with the system, but if I dont change anything, I kinda expect nothing to change. But that doesnt seem to be the case. Pls note I have a very small system / house. I built my mesh up and dont mess with it. im on the right channels and have had a time where 6 weeks went by and not one issue, but lately it seems im pulled back to the system time and time again to work out why something has stopped or something else isnt working.
Its frustrating.

Sorry to hear about yoru continued problems.

I had the same for months. I got a second HE hub. I moved all risky devices/apps to the old hub. My older HE hub ran faster than my newer hub with all my rules. It didnt fix the problem. I bought a Xbee to trace/map my Zigbee network. It wasnt the problem.

I finally decided to move my automations to NodeRed, and use Hubitat for device control only. I'm not fully there, but 90% of my automations are now with NodeRed.

I experience faster rule running, very few DB errors, and better satisfaction. My experience has led me to believe that HE struggles with many rules. My backup size has reduced from 35MB to 19 MB.

My recomendation: look into Node Red. I also have a pretty cool dashboard too.

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This @stevebott123 is what I am finding as well.

The second hub with these problematic Z-Wave devices I have, now leave my main hub to hum along. It is still necessary to reboot only the hub that has the problem children on it every day on a schedule, but I don't care that it does that. It's working well, and I saved the $300 it would cost to replace them.

I do not use NodeRed, but just splitting the devices I know are old and chatty has made all the difference.

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As much as I love and recommend Node-RED I have to say in my experience I agree with @SmartHomePrimer - Erratic devices will absolutely kill HE performance and that issue is often magnified the more rules/apps you have on the hub.

If you have a small house multiple hubs may seem like an unnecessary expense and pain so another thing you can do to simplify things is changing RM rules over to using the lighter weight Motion Lighting and Simple Lighting apps if possible. Also a stop-gap measure is to install a rebooter app - I've used Rootin Tootin Rebootin app with good success. While that is not really a solution it may help keep your sanity while the folks at HE figure things out.

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yeah see all my devices are z-wave plus (I have 5 z-wave devices - like I said, a small system)
also - the majority of my rules are basic, very basic.
J-church keeps pushing me to Node-Red, i'll probably have to have a look at it.

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I have a small system and lots of my ideas/rules are spread over motion lighting, simple lighting and RM rules.

This is sad, not because it works or is possible but that people find the need to do it :frowning:

@mike.maxwell
@bravenet
@chuck.schwer

That's a nice list... :grinning:
Here's my main hub after Node-RED.

Cautiously optimistic, all my hubs seemed to have settled down since the migration. Have been able to recreate all of my rules/apps as sequences and even improved on a few things. I like the visual design style but ymmv.

Augmenting HE with an external system is not a knock on HE at all - I would argue its a testament to the flexibility inherent in the product itself. Ease of setup, device management, Safety Monitoring, groups/scenes, Maker API, Motion Zones, custom app/drivers etc - all very nice. RM and it's lighter weight siblings are also very capable - I just prefer a different design system - was really into WebCoRE in my ST days.

I certainly did not feel I had to make the switch. I saw an interesting opensource platform that people were using and apparently integrated well with HE and decided to try it out. Once I understood how powerful NR could be for my personal setup the possibility of mitigating slowdown issues was just icing on the cake.

I am a very happy (multi) HE owner..

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If you were happy with RM you wouldn't digress to another solution. Agreed nodeRED is a different paradigm being visual but does get confusing with lot of tabs or nodes. I too use nodeRED because I leverage MQTT.

I know you're a happy user but I'm more alluding to the 'hub doesn't slowdown now' posts and also using my MQTT app (no reported slowdowns) or the HA <> MQTT integration present similar observation.

People need to feel confident the RM inbuilt solution is (more) capable, fast and resilient long term.

I love that HE gives us these options - they're good.

RM is only part of HE and it's not even installed by default - you can run a decent setup without it just not anything really sophisticated.

I mean I do see your point though and I agree - these ongoing issues are causing people to maybe lose trust/faith in the system which can be a bad thing.

Part of the issue is how complicated Home Automation really is versus perception. The average non-tech/slightly techie consumer has been somewhat deceived by all the fine marketing (hype) in this sector so comes to the table expecting everything to work perfectly with all of their devices.

Been there, read that, tried, it doesn't...

But RM is what 90% (guess) of' 'capable' users will use for rules and it's not overly user friendly plus there's increasing doubt over these slowdowns. I'm not pointing any finger at RM, it's the most complex of all applications - and easily upset when you do something silly. But it's the out of the box
inquisitive user choice. Given most users are I think just new to this area.

I wish Hubitat could bottom the slowdown issue as it's just a 'not acceptable' situation for your HA controller. Scheduled restarts is a kludge and may not work even then.

PS I don't even know if ST has this same issue but has the horsepower with Amazon cloud for it to not be an issue.

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I still think it's some sort of flaky device/network interactions exacerbated by RM and other apps etc due to RMs "heavy" backend (lots of code for lots of use-cases).

Btw - you inspired me get into MQTT so thanks for that and all your work with the MQTT app!!!

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I have no slowdowns on 4 different hubs but few < 5 Z-Wave and ZigBee devices and only 4 RM rules. Lots of apps and IP devices though. Three hubs are C4 and one is C3 . I suspect there's some clue in my usage as to why this eludes problems. I'm lucky because if I did I would retire HE instantly.

I have confidence it can be identified

MQTT is great for systems beyond two devices/controllers as they can all share realtime state and control of devices. For just two controllers there are typically easier options to integrate, but when two becomes three (and it will) you'll be happy you chose MQTT.

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Eh, I went from 3 down to 2 - and only 2 because of my osram landscape lights that require a separate zigbee mesh. Otherwise I would be down to 1 Hubitat + Node-RED.

Once I got the apps, logic, and wifi/IP devices off Hubitat, I saw zero reason to have more than one hub from a performance standpoint. It handles 150+ zwave/zigbee devices just fine on one hub.

But I agree 100% on use and benefits of MQTT. Heck, that is why I use 3 MQTT servers in production. Although I use MQTT any time the data pub/sub count is >1. :slight_smile:

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