Kiwkset Lock - Zwave to Zigbee Conversion

Zigbee and Z-Wave both use aes-128 encryption. So security is comparable. At least from some points of view.

Since I have a Kwikset lock (pretty crappy from a physical security standpoint) the Zigbee part is probably the most secure thing in the lock. lol

Since I've been one of the most active "complainers" on here about the Kwikset Zwave performance I figured I would chime in with my latest status update: I've finally managed to work out all the issues with these locks.

The final solution? Two parts. Part one: Placing a "beaming" mains powered Zwave repeater in the outlet nearest every single lock. All 6 of them.

I was hesitant to try this at first because the locks with the biggest issues were the ones closest to the HE hub. However as I dug more into how Zwave locks operate I realized that was precisely the problem: Since they were so close to the hub there weren't any beaming capable repeaters between the hub and the locks, which meant the hub itself had to perform the beaming function and it's radio was apparently too busy doing other things to handle this effectively. I also realized some of my mains powered "repeaters" were older and didn't support beaming. (All repeaters made after 2015 are required to support beaming for Zwave certification now)

This solved the problem of the locks inconsistently working and/or updating their status. I now get updates 100% of the time (Based on my testing over the past week or so) and adding/removing lock codes via LCM now works 100%.

However I had one remaining problem: Any rules I built in Rule Machine that involved locking or unlocking multiple locks at once would never work. (Ok, maybe 10% of the time). Rules that locked or unlocked only a single lock would work 100% of the time.

So I wrote a custom App that loops through the locks and locks them one at a time, with a 10 second pause in between each one. So far that solution has worked 100% of the time over the past week.

-Jeremy

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Very cool!!!! That is a lot better place than you were in before, for sure!

I can see a few non-beamforming not helping matters, but I'm still surprised you had so many issues without adding outlets.

But in the end - who cares? Adding some outlets is a lot easier (and cheaper) than replacing 6 locks!!!

Okay that's good! How do I know it's doing that for Zigbee or is it "on" all the time? With Z-Wave there is the "zwaveSecurePairingComplete" data element on the device page.

It's always on with zigbee.

Now that doesn't mean there aren't other flaws in the protocol or attack vectors. But that is true of everything.

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Yeah - sadly Z-wave secure does not perform very well... which is also likely an issue with the locks.

Mind elucidating your choice in 'beaming' repeaters?

OK, so I'm not the guy you replied to, but I've been looking into this same issue myself and can offer some suggestions. Assuming you're in the US, easily available Z-Wave devices that support beaming include:

  • Aeon Smart Switch 6 (ZW096) or Smart Dimmer 6 (ZW099)
  • Zooz S2 Double Plug (ZEN25) and USB Smart Plug (ZEN06)
  • HomeSeer WS-100+, WS-200+, WD100+, and WD-200+ (pretty much all of their wired dimmers/switches)
  • Inovelli: They're pretty much all out of stock right now, but any switch/dimmer and outlet/plug I've checked does, and they're new enough that they probably had to support beaming to get certified
  • Zooz In-Wall Switch (ZEN21, ZEN23) and Dimmer (ZEN22, ZEN24)
  • GE In-Wall Smart Switch (14291/ZW4005), In-Wall Outlet (14288/ZW1002), Dual Plug (28173/ZW4104), and most similar newer GE plugs/switches/dimmers (probably not some older ones)
  • Zooz Power Strip v2 (ZEN20 VER. 2.0)
  • HomeSeer outdoor motion/floodlight sensor (HS-FLS100+)

...and many others, including the Aeotech Nano Switch and Nano Dimmer and pretty much any powered Z-Wave device (i.e., repeater) made in the last 3-4 years when it became a certification requirement. There are still some out that don't, possibly devices that can be either battery- or mains-powered (e.g., the new Aeotech Trisensor that doesn't support beaming). Note that the device doesn't even have to be Z-Wave Plus (I have an older "plain" Z-Wave Aeon plug that supports beaming, something I never thought to check at the time when I bought it), though you're probably less likely to find older devices that support it.

Your best bet is to view the "Conformance Statement" on the Z-Wave alliance site for your desired device, making sure that your model numbers/revisions match, and see if "Beaming" says "Yes": Catalog of Certified Z-Wave Products for U.S. / Canada / Mexico

Personally, I have a smart light switch (HS-WS200+) near my lock/door. I didn't really need a smart switch there, but it was prettier than a non-in-wall solution in that room. I also got the new ZEN25 outlet because it's on sale and has a better form factor than some other plugs I have; I hope to eventually replace all my Z-Wave repeaters with Plus devices that support beaming, but that may be going overboard. :slight_smile:

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Pretty sure EVERY non-battery GE/Jasco zwave plus device supports beaming.

If in doubt, look on the zwave alliance webpage, as that is one of the things a vendor has to report in the Z-Wave Protocol Implementation Conformance Statement .

If the alliance listing is accurate, I've got devices surrounding each lock (2 within 6" on each, in fact) that support Beaming, but the locks still suck and drop commands regularly. One more so than the other, frequently enough to be more than frustrating.

That is my issue too. I have tried working with support and thought maybe this is a zwave issue but can't prove anything. I have the same issue with both Kwikset 888 and Kwikset 910 devices. I have decided to invest in some Yale YRD110 locks to prove either Kwikset locks suck OR there really is an HE issue with secure zwave locks.

Interesting discovery today. I have 2 different kwikset zigbee modules - 1 works, the other will pair but only as a generic device. The generic one will not accept lock codes, etc, but will lock/unlock.

NOTE: The red one below apparently came out of a Control4 Kwikset lock. So it indeed may be different/have a different ID. Any hopes of getting that one working @bravenel @mike.maxwell or am I SOL?

Works:


Does not work / detected as generic device:


I had to re-install my zwave module after that zigbee module didn't work as desired. The module paired first try, while in door - I didn't even bother moving HE close. First time that has happened.

Send @mike.maxwell the fingerprint of the radio that didn't get picked up during discovery, he'll add the fingerprint and it'll work in the future.

Dopey question - where do I find the fingerprint?

Device Details on the device property page. The Data section.

I sent the screen shots to Mike. Might be out of luck on this one, though, everything in "data" is blank...

Oh! Well, that's not right.:face_with_raised_eyebrow:

I know that wouldn't be right for ZWAVE... I have no idea what an unrecognized ZIGBEE device should look like.

When you pair the device (Looking for Zigbee and Z-Wave devices window) , under the save button you can grab the fingerprint data from there. Try to pair it again.