KeyInCode locks, bigger opportunity

I discovered these locks and had no prior knowledge of them, so I wanted to check if anyone was familiar with them regarding Hubitat/Automation. Apparently, they are WiFi-enabled and only work with RemoteLock.com, which raises the question: why hasn't Hubitat considered a model similar to X-10, where they manufacture affordable zwave/zigbee/etc hardware, create open-source software/firmware and market their Hubitat units? There is a huge potential for success here.

I imagine because of the upfront investment required to do so.

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@FriedCheese2006 that can be said for any business. Hubitat would not have to making the investment of a “new product” (this I have lots experience with) and is much less than launching Hubitat itself. We are talking about switches, locks, etc which they have insights and data on which is most used, data that almost all of the smart providers would kill for. So a small investment aside, why else? There is ZERO loyalty to Hubitat from say Philips Hues team, Kiwi, Yale, Levtron, etc or even from zwave or matter group, so why not get involved in hardware they open source the firmware, so we as the community update and hubitat benefits.

Can't comment on business development aspect, but I can certainly comment on the data collection aspect. Unlike cloud based platforms that collect users' data, Hubitat customers' data stays on their hubs. So for all those who would kill for the data, they can rest assured, Hubitat cannot be their next victim. :wink:

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It's way more than that. Even if they white labeled products. Who codes the firmware? Who handles the rigorous device testing that would be required? Who supports device issues? Who handles marketing?

There are people that would need to be hired to support a venture like that, plus the upfront capital. I can't imagine their cash flow is super high so that means turning to a lender; or trying to bring in investors which would need to be a specific type of person to not impact their overall mission.

Just because the upfront cost could be reduced, doesn't make it a zero sum. There's still a cost.

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Whatever the reason(s), it’s pretty unlikely they were just waiting for someone to suggest it to them.

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@bobbyD

I wasn’t suggesting Hubitat collects data off their devices, but lordly Lordy I would hope Hubitat is collect data from customer interactions, this forum, support request, etc… if not then someone isn’t doing their job!

They do this all the time.

But most customers don’t suggest they make a core change to how they run their business. Some people do though.

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@marktheknife Hubitat is in the hardware business and in one that’s been growing for years, a business that X10 commanded and made millions in, so much so that others organized against them… all I’m suggesting is that they consider it. You might be surprised that they are considering it and maybe need someone to bring it up for further discussion.

We would all be surprised. I have no idea what they have considered nor what they have planned. That’s why it makes little sense for any of us to suggest to them which direction to take their business plan.

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I can certainly comment on the data collection aspect. Unlike cloud based platforms that collect users' data, Hubitat customers' data stays on their hubs. So for all those who would kill for the data, they can rest assured, Hubitat cannot be their next victim.

THANK YOU so much for this. This is why I bought a Hubitat!

While there may be other systems that also offer this, Hubitat is the only one for which you can buy off the shelf hardware and that engages and appreciates their users.

The other related space in which a product with Hubitat's qualities seems to be missing is security cams - either cobble your own hardware and software together, which has a high barrier to entry, or buy one that is cloud based. I'd love to buy one that is local, offers cloud access as a subscription and respects user privacy and does not sell my data.

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You suggested earlier that we have "insights and data on which is most used". Based on customer interactions we have data on which devices cause most problems. Most people don't voluntarily come out in the community or create warranty cases to let us know how well a device works, although that would be nice to hear from time to time. :slight_smile:

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@bobbyD That, to a degree, is even better because that’s the lowest-hanging fruit to go after in the marketplace. Ie. “Man, 70% of our calls are about light switches not reporting status!?” Data point, an opportunity to create light switches that guarantee reporting status.

It’s all a matter of perspective, and I’m one that sees the opportunities within data withOUT compromising Privacy.

Also, I would add that Hunitat can put out Polls or Surveys without collecting personalized data.

This problem has already been solved by nearly everything made in the last 7 or so years since the relevant Lutron patent expired. :slight_smile: (I know this was just an example, but the fact that these devices exist--and have for a while now--shows that anyone, including Hubitat, making such a device doesn't mean everyone will use it.)

This reminds me: if you're just looking for things that the community and sometimes staff like, there were "X of the Year" posts at the end of 2021 where people voted on their favorite devices by category. The landscape really hasn't changed much since then (seems like they might have thought about doing this again last year but never did, but maybe by the end of this year things could get exciting again...). Most of the "favorites" from these polls, and the runner-ups, if still available, are still ones I'd recommend personally.

Hubitat's Z-Wave engineer also made a post once with his favorite Z-Wave devices by category. Few have said anything about Zigbee, but CentraLite products (now owned by Ezlo but still marketed under this name) are generally well loved. They've also OEMed products for others in the past, and if Hubitat did such a thing (and CentraLite still did this--I'm not sure they do), I'd imagine it being something like that...so just go get the CentraLite directly instead. :stuck_out_tongue:

Anyway, while we do get surprises sometimes, my suspicion is that the above is as close as we're ever likely to get...

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To add to what @bertabcd1234 wrote, the fact that Samsung got out of the business of manufacturing zigbee devices, suggests this is not a lucrative business model. Other prominent failures include Iris.

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Well, there was a 2022 Product of the Year thread, but for some reason it is gone. It's linked to in this discussion:

Everyone was cooking Matter and not many new devices were released in 2022, so the list wouldn't have been any different than the prior year, as indicated by the thread to submit new devices, which wasn't very popular.

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Based on that logic, it seems unlikely that Hubitat should exist given Samsung's exit from the ST market, yet here we are. There's no single X-10-style replacement that runs on Zigbee/Z-Wave and provides a full product lineup; Ikea is the closest, but no locks. Amazon would come next.

Looking at SimpliSafe (aside from privacy concerns), it's worth ten times more than Hubitat because of its unified offering. My 65-year-old mother managed to set it up. Contrast that to the complexity of Hubitat and HA, which require programming knowledge.

Furthermore, some security companies are getting into smart devices and could create a DVR with Zigbee/Z-Wave integration. This could include locks, cameras, switches, and automation, all managed by the same device. Such a scenario would pose a challenge for Hubitat, since it isn't a DVR and people are already asking how to integrate cameras. This would make Hubitat more complex compared to a single solution that simply works. Money talks and this is a big opportunity that Hubitat should consider. A single simple open-source hardware solution that works.

I respect people's opinion of not wanting Hubitat to change their course, I'm just making conversation.

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